The 4 Freshmen


The 4 Freshmen

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GhostII
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Last week I offered up a post listing Overton starting at PF with Price right behind him, and Roberts behind Price
Some of you on the board took umbrage with my post, ranking Roberts 3rd string. So, here’s goes:
1. I really hope I’m dead wrong on Roberts and he scores 28 points a game as the starter.
2. In another post I compared the stats of Krutwig and former Louisville star center from 65-68 Wes Unseld from their time in the valley.
3. I know how many of you think,so you are asking, ‘what’s your point?’
4. Ok, let’s get down to the business at hand. The strength of the MVC player wise has been in my estimation, based on 3 factors,
speed, agility, and athleticism. Price, Chico, KO, and Colby have these attributes, and that is why I picked them to stand out as future stars. I mean no respect to Roberts in anyway, just my observation of 60 years watching MVC Men’s BB
5. Your thoughts?
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Dis-respect for Roberts I meant to say
zman
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GhostII - 8/7/2023
Dis-respect for Roberts I meant to say

So here's the thing.  Roberts has already proven himself by being the Freshman of the year in the Patriot league.  Every team needs shooters.  Now, I'm not going to argue w/you that the guys you mentioned might ( I honestly can't say until I see live action) not be more athletic.  And yes, today's game is all about athleticism.  I think most people are basing Roberts being in the starting lineup w/his very solid year last year.  Now as the season goes on we have so many newcomers it certainly could be a possibility that one of them overtakes him.  Time will tell.  If they are better than him than that's certainly not a bad thing.  Just my 2 cents.
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GhostII - 8/7/2023
Last week I offered up a post listing Overton starting at PF with Price right behind him, and Roberts behind Price
Some of you on the board took umbrage with my post, ranking Roberts 3rd string. So, here’s goes:
1. I really hope I’m dead wrong on Roberts and he scores 28 points a game as the starter.
2. In another post I compared the stats of Krutwig and former Louisville star center from 65-68 Wes Unseld from their time in the valley.
3. I know how many of you think,so you are asking, ‘what’s your point?’
4. Ok, let’s get down to the business at hand. The strength of the MVC player wise has been in my estimation, based on 3 factors,
speed, agility, and athleticism. Price, Chico, KO, and Colby have these attributes, and that is why I picked them to stand out as future stars. I mean no respect to Roberts in anyway, just my observation of 60 years watching MVC Men’s BB
5. Your thoughts?




While I disagree with your opinion you are more than entitled to it and I respect that. Though, I will tell you that Roberts was patriot league rookie of the year and he is on some NBA draft big boards. Hes long, and a lethal shooter with legit NBA range. He may not be the athlete that these freshmen are, but he has proven he’s a high-level scorer and shooter. He will help us immensely this year and beyond. If he’s not a starter he will play significant minutes (20+/game easily).
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GhostII - 8/7/2023

4. Ok, let’s get down to the business at hand. The strength of the MVC player wise has been in my estimation, based on 3 factors,
speed, agility, and athleticism. Price, Chico, KO *, and Colby have these attributes, and that is why I picked them to stand out as future stars. I mean no respect to Roberts in anyway, just my observation of 60 years watching MVC Men’s BB
5. Your thoughts?

While I agree that those three attributes are important, you left out a huge one.....the ability to make 3-pointers at a high clip.  Also, just to play devil's advocate, the most important player on the most recent MVC Final 4 team did not have speed or athleticism (Krutwig).    Tucker was POY of the MVC last season, and he's average in those departments.  
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I'm kind of surprised you doubled down on the "third- string" aspect of it. I would have pivoted and played the position-less basketball angle. 

This team is going to be very deep and for the traditional 2-4 spots, will play position-less basketball. I personally view Roberts as one of our best players because he is so much like Tucker. So I could see his minutes being staggered so that they're both on the floor together at times,  but at least one of them on the floor at all times. 

So in that respect you could rank minutes for Atin, Kyron, Connor, Tucker, Price, KO, Chico, Rosario and Roberts and just have Roberts coming in last with fairly evenly split MPG. That would be an argument you could at least entertain. (But I would still disagree with it) 
hamlox
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While I respect your opinion, if you are correct, that's saying something about the new class.
Are you sure about the three factors of speed, agility and athleticism for the strength of a MVC player?
I'm thinking Larry Bird Award winner Tucker DeVries and runner-up Rick Mast might not even agree with you.  I don't see All-MVC's Roman Penn and Garrett Sturtz fall under your three categories. 

I agree, DeVries has recruited some excellent athletes in this class. I think all these young guys could develop into something special.
However, it's going to be difficult for a freshman to come in and play more minutes than Ethan Roberts.  Why was Ethan Freshman of the Year in the Patriot League?  Ethan shot 40% from three, 85% from the free throw line, 54% from two, was the sixth ranked freshman in True Shooting Percentage in the country and ranked 115th. 
The offense is going to go through DeVries and Brodie.  If and when those two are double teamed when they have the ball, I'm thinking Coach will give more minutes at the start of the season to a player who has proven to be dependable and can finish.
Maybe someone can refresh my memory.  In the past ten years, has there been a freshman start at the beginning of the year outside of Timmer and DeVries?   There are a bunch of guys who will shoot the three on this team.  Minutes will come down to chemistry on the offensive end, along with the ability to make the extra pass, and the ability to defend.

The board also appears to be obsessed with who will start. Sturtz was second team ALL-VALLEY his, uhm, "second" junior year.  He started that year just 22 games.  No disrespect, Jonah Jackson started 22 games.  It's great to know Tuck can light it up.  But, I'm thinking this team will have balanced scoring, with a bunch of guys getting ten points a game.  I look forward to seeing if anybody can be the next Sturtz on the boards and on defense?  I'm wondering who will force turnovers?  I'm wondering will the 'Dogs finish in the final four minutes of a close game?  I'm wondering who will be a potential Sixth Man of the Year come March 1, 2024?  I'm wondering who will be on the All-Frosh team?

Three months until opening tip?  It will be here in a snap!


GhostII
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I agree that the game has changed over the last 60 years. I’ll give you that one.
‘what I think you will see evolve over the coming season/years is that KO, Chico, Colby, Price- meet the 3 criteria that I’ve mentioned, and they all can stroke the 3-that’s what I’m really pumped up about





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hamlox - 8/7/2023
While I respect your opinion, if you are correct, that's saying something about the new class.
Are you sure about the three factors of speed, agility and athleticism for the strength of a MVC player?
I'm thinking Larry Bird Award winner Tucker DeVries and runner-up Rick Mast might not even agree with you.  I don't see All-MVC's Roman Penn and Garrett Sturtz fall under your three categories. 

I agree, DeVries has recruited some excellent athletes in this class. I think all these young guys could develop into something special.
However, it's going to be difficult for a freshman to come in and play more minutes than Ethan Roberts.  Why was Ethan Freshman of the Year in the Patriot League?  Ethan shot 40% from three, 85% from the free throw line, 54% from two, was the sixth ranked freshman in True Shooting Percentage in the country and ranked 115th. 
The offense is going to go through DeVries and Brodie.  If and when those two are double teamed when they have the ball, I'm thinking Coach will give more minutes at the start of the season to a player who has proven to be dependable and can finish.
Maybe someone can refresh my memory.  In the past ten years, has there been a freshman start at the beginning of the year outside of Timmer and DeVries?   


DJ Wilkins
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As for freshman minutes in general, I'm not sure I'm seeing a lot to go around. And that's not a knock on the class at all — I think they're extremely talented, maybe the best we've had in recent memory when looking at quantity and quality. There's just been nothing to suggest that Darian is willing to go more than 9 deep. I do, however, think that Darian could be enticed by a five-guard lineup in certain spots with Price guarding the opposing teams' 5. So I'm bullish on Price getting minutes. Otherwise, here are the "upperclassmen" that the freshman will need to pass in order to get minutes. Unless Darian starts to go 9 or 10 deep, there just aren't a lot of minutes to be had.

1. Tucker DeVries
2. Atin Wright
3. Kyron Gibson
4. Connor Enright
5. Ethan Roberts
6. Darnell Brodie
7. Nate Ferguson
8. Carlos Rosario


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RealDealDog - 8/7/2023
GhostII - 8/7/2023
Last week I offered up a post listing Overton starting at PF with Price right behind him, and Roberts behind Price
Some of you on the board took umbrage with my post, ranking Roberts 3rd string. So, here’s goes:
1. I really hope I’m dead wrong on Roberts and he scores 28 points a game as the starter.
2. In another post I compared the stats of Krutwig and former Louisville star center from 65-68 Wes Unseld from their time in the valley.
3. I know how many of you think,so you are asking, ‘what’s your point?’
4. Ok, let’s get down to the business at hand. The strength of the MVC player wise has been in my estimation, based on 3 factors,
speed, agility, and athleticism. Price, Chico, KO, and Colby have these attributes, and that is why I picked them to stand out as future stars. I mean no respect to Roberts in anyway, just my observation of 60 years watching MVC Men’s BB
5. Your thoughts?




While I disagree with your opinion you are more than entitled to it and I respect that. Though, I will tell you that Roberts was patriot league rookie of the year and he is on some NBA draft big boards. Hes long, and a lethal shooter with legit NBA range. He may not be the athlete that these freshmen are, but he has proven he’s a high-level scorer and shooter. He will help us immensely this year and beyond. If he’s not a starter he will play significant minutes (20+/game easily).

Great to learn Roberts is on some NBA draft big boards.  Deep potential class for the Dogs.
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My vote goes to anyone - transfer or freshman - who can balance Tucker’s three point shooting with some consistent three point shooting.of his own.
hamlox
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DUBulldog - 8/7/2023
hamlox - 8/7/2023
While I respect your opinion, if you are correct, that's saying something about the new class.
Are you sure about the three factors of speed, agility and athleticism for the strength of a MVC player?
I'm thinking Larry Bird Award winner Tucker DeVries and runner-up Rick Mast might not even agree with you.  I don't see All-MVC's Roman Penn and Garrett Sturtz fall under your three categories. 

I agree, DeVries has recruited some excellent athletes in this class. I think all these young guys could develop into something special.
However, it's going to be difficult for a freshman to come in and play more minutes than Ethan Roberts.  Why was Ethan Freshman of the Year in the Patriot League?  Ethan shot 40% from three, 85% from the free throw line, 54% from two, was the sixth ranked freshman in True Shooting Percentage in the country and ranked 115th. 
The offense is going to go through DeVries and Brodie.  If and when those two are double teamed when they have the ball, I'm thinking Coach will give more minutes at the start of the season to a player who has proven to be dependable and can finish.
Maybe someone can refresh my memory.  In the past ten years, has there been a freshman start at the beginning of the year outside of Timmer and DeVries?   


DJ Wilkins

ahhhhhhhhhh, nice call.  That's why I asked.

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ColonialBulldog - 8/7/2023
As for freshman minutes in general, I'm not sure I'm seeing a lot to go around. And that's not a knock on the class at all — I think they're extremely talented, maybe the best we've had in recent memory when looking at quantity and quality. There's just been nothing to suggest that Darian is willing to go more than 9 deep. I do, however, think that Darian could be enticed by a five-guard lineup in certain spots with Price guarding the opposing teams' 5. So I'm bullish on Price getting minutes. Otherwise, here are the "upperclassmen" that the freshman will need to pass in order to get minutes. Unless Darian starts to go 9 or 10 deep, there just aren't a lot of minutes to be had.

1. Tucker DeVries
2. Atin Wright
3. Kyron Gibson
4. Connor Enright
5. Ethan Roberts
6. Darnell Brodie
7. Nate Ferguson
8. Carlos Rosario


I think this is where I land too. There certainly isn't a great track record of DeVries giving true freshman many minutes. Granted with the combination of the craziness of his roster building after taking the job and COVID circumstances still affecting the roster, it's hard to know if it's a fair sample. By my research Robbins, Sturtz, and Tucker are the only true freshman who contributed more than 10 MPG; and Robbins had a post-grad season*. When you look at his stats page, DJ may look like a true freshman in 18-19 but I hardly consider him one (also had a post-grad), maybe unfair. Yesufu might have gotten there if he didn't get hurt.

*Although I think three of our "true" freshman are post grad guys? KO and Garland definitely are. Not sure if Price was a post-grad or just played at somewhere more specialized his senior year.  




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UrbyJT - 8/7/2023
ColonialBulldog - 8/7/2023
As for freshman minutes in general, I'm not sure I'm seeing a lot to go around. And that's not a knock on the class at all — I think they're extremely talented, maybe the best we've had in recent memory when looking at quantity and quality. There's just been nothing to suggest that Darian is willing to go more than 9 deep. I do, however, think that Darian could be enticed by a five-guard lineup in certain spots with Price guarding the opposing teams' 5. So I'm bullish on Price getting minutes. Otherwise, here are the "upperclassmen" that the freshman will need to pass in order to get minutes. Unless Darian starts to go 9 or 10 deep, there just aren't a lot of minutes to be had.

1. Tucker DeVries
2. Atin Wright
3. Kyron Gibson
4. Connor Enright
5. Ethan Roberts
6. Darnell Brodie
7. Nate Ferguson
8. Carlos Rosario


I think this is where I land too. There certainly isn't a great track record of DeVries giving true freshman many minutes. Granted with the combination of the craziness of his roster building after taking the job and COVID circumstances still affecting the roster, it's hard to know if it's a fair sample. By my research Robbins, Sturtz, and Tucker are the only true freshman who contributed more than 10 MPG; and Robbins had a post-grad season*. When you look at his stats page, DJ may look like a true freshman in 18-19 but I hardly consider him one (also had a post-grad), maybe unfair. 





I think that’s totally fair.  DJ was 21 years old during his “freshman” season.
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UrbyJT - 8/7/2023
ColonialBulldog - 8/7/2023
As for freshman minutes in general, I'm not sure I'm seeing a lot to go around. And that's not a knock on the class at all — I think they're extremely talented, maybe the best we've had in recent memory when looking at quantity and quality. There's just been nothing to suggest that Darian is willing to go more than 9 deep. I do, however, think that Darian could be enticed by a five-guard lineup in certain spots with Price guarding the opposing teams' 5. So I'm bullish on Price getting minutes. Otherwise, here are the "upperclassmen" that the freshman will need to pass in order to get minutes. Unless Darian starts to go 9 or 10 deep, there just aren't a lot of minutes to be had.

1. Tucker DeVries
2. Atin Wright
3. Kyron Gibson
4. Connor Enright
5. Ethan Roberts
6. Darnell Brodie
7. Nate Ferguson
8. Carlos Rosario


I think this is where I land too. There certainly isn't a great track record of DeVries giving true freshman many minutes. Granted with the combination of the craziness of his roster building after taking the job and COVID circumstances still affecting the roster, it's hard to know if it's a fair sample. By my research Robbins, Sturtz, and Tucker are the only true freshman who contributed more than 10 MPG; and Robbins had a post-grad season*. When you look at his stats page, DJ may look like a true freshman in 18-19 but I hardly consider him one (also had a post-grad), maybe unfair. Yesufu might have gotten there if he didn't get hurt.

*Although I think three of our "true" freshman are post grad guys? KO and Garland definitely are. Not sure if Price was a post-grad or just played at somewhere more specialized his senior year.  



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