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MVC Expansion?Expand / Collapse
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Posted 4/29/2010 5:43:05 PM
Supreme Being

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I heard a rumor that the MVC is looking at possible expansion. Does Anyone know if it is true? Teams that were mentioned were Valpo, Dayton, Xavier, Saint Louis, Butler, and the Dakota's.

This would be one heck of a 16 team basketball conference....

Bradley
Butler
Creighton
Drake
Dayton
Evansville
Illinois State
Indiana State
Missouri State
Northern Iowa
North Dakota State or South Dakota State (at least on, maybe both if another team falls though)
Saint Louis
Southern Illinois
Valparaiso
Wichita State
Xavier

If you required each school to have at least a non-scholarship football team, you could have a descent football conference too...

Pioneer Division (non-scholarship)
Bradley
Butler
Creighton
Drake
Dayton
Evansville
Valparaiso
Xavier

Gateway Division (scholarship)
Illinois State
Indiana State
Missouri State
Northern Iowa
North Dakota State or South Dakota State (at least on, maybe both if another team falls though)
Saint Louis
Southern Illinois
Wichita State

Post #52716
Posted 4/29/2010 5:48:57 PM


Supreme Being

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Not that it means anything, but I haven't heard anything about MVC expansion at all, and I read 5-6 MVC-related sites on a regular basis. The subject comes up on Valleytalk all the time, but there's been no recent discussion at all about expansion over there.

16 teams is far too large for a conference. You would dilute old rivalries, and with that many teams, you'd only play everybody once a season in basketball, with maybe a couple of teams twice. I would miss seeing teams like Creighton, Bradley, WSU, etc on a regular basis at the Knapp Center (you certainly wouldn't be able to play all of them home and home).

Doesn't sound like a good idea to me. I'm not for expansion at this time, unless we could get a school like Butler, and they haven't expressed any interest in the past. I think getting teams like Dayton and Xavier is a pipe dream....they aren't within the current geographical area of the MVC and travel costs would go up for them as compared to their current conference.



10 teams is ideal. 12 teams is doable. 16 teams is a giant cluster ****.

.
Post #52718
Posted 4/29/2010 6:56:40 PM


Supreme Being

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Just think of all the new abbreviations I could come up with

Unfortunately if it happened, my 'tiebreaker' spreadsheet for the MVC would be shot to H (I'll let you figure that one out).


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Post #52722
Posted 4/29/2010 8:21:17 PM


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Darth Vader (4/29/2010)
Just think of all the new abbreviations I could come up with


Yet another reason why I'm against expansion.

.
Post #52723
Posted 4/29/2010 10:22:27 PM


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Depending what happens in the Big Ten/Eleven, I think we could see a lot conference changes this summer.
Post #52727
Posted 4/29/2010 10:28:05 PM
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I would like to see just 2- and the geography is good- Butler and Western Kentucky I would think WKU would like to upgrade from their conference
Post #52728
Posted 4/29/2010 11:21:15 PM


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ILLINOISBULLDOG (4/29/2010)
I would like to see just 2- and the geography is good- Butler and Western Kentucky I would think WKU would like to upgrade from their conference


But.....Western Kentucky plays 1-A football, so I don't think they'd consider the MVC unless they downgraded their football program.

.
Post #52729
Posted 4/29/2010 11:37:44 PM
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I think expansion by 2 would be good for the conference. My ideal two are Butler and St. Louis. Failing Butler, I'd like us to have a look either UW-Green Bay or UW-Milwaukee because it expands the Valley market and I'm from Wisconsin so I'm a little biased. My third tier of schools that would be acceptable that wouldn't wow me would be Valpo, Oral Roberts, The Dakota States, Loyola Chicago, Detroit, and UMKC.
Post #52730
Posted 4/30/2010 8:57:24 AM


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Yeah it would be great to get our arse kicked by Butler at least twice a year.

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Post #52731
Posted 4/30/2010 9:21:22 AM
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They are a natural rival for us based on the Pioneer League. Do you want to play a better schedule or not? Beggars Can't Be Choosers.
Post #52732
Posted 4/30/2010 9:27:09 AM


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What about DePaul? They seem over their heads in the Big East and Chicago would be a nice market to open.
Post #52733
Posted 4/30/2010 9:40:40 AM


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BRFDawg (4/30/2010)
They are a natural rival for us based on the Pioneer League. Do you want to play a better schedule or not? Beggars Can't Be Choosers.


Until we have success with a weak schedule....no.

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Post #52734
Posted 4/30/2010 10:23:27 AM


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S would be great and make a lot of sense, bringing back an ex-Valley school. D, B and X have built their programs by being the elite of an oetherwise weak conference. Coming to Valley might jeopardize that, kind of like Gonzaga going to the Mountain West, don't see it happening. A D, either N or S, is probably more realistic.

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Post #52740
Posted 4/30/2010 2:09:09 PM


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I think Butler wanted in when Evansville was admitted, and were rejected. It was a good move for them stying where they are and dominating a weak conference. I wonder if they would be any good if they had moved to the Valley?

Don't pass up the shot.
Post #52751
Posted 4/30/2010 2:16:32 PM


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Drakey (4/30/2010)
I think Butler wanted in when Evansville was admitted, and were rejected. It was a good move for them stying where they are and dominating a weak conference. I wonder if they would be any good if they had moved to the Valley?


It sure hasn't worked out all that well for Evansville, which was a pretty successful program prior to joining the MVC.

.
Post #52752
Posted 4/30/2010 10:28:42 PM
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Here is how I look at it. Would you rather be a wolf or a lamb? The hunter or the hunted? I absolutely hope the conference looks at expanding. The landscape is changing, w/the Big Ten looking to add 4-5 teams, Colorado to the Pac 10, if the Valley stays pat we could definitely lose out. The Horizon conference that Butler plays in is lousy. Who is their main rival? Wright State? Valpo? If we could add 3-5 more schools that make sense I am all for it. DU, you talk about old rivals, but our old rivals used to be Louisville, Memphis St., St. Louis, Tulsa. Things change. Let's expand!
Post #52760
Posted 4/30/2010 10:45:18 PM


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zman2 (4/30/2010)
Here is how I look at it. Would you rather be a wolf or a lamb? The hunter or the hunted? I absolutely hope the conference looks at expanding. The landscape is changing, w/the Big Ten looking to add 4-5 teams, Colorado to the Pac 10, if the Valley stays pat we could definitely lose out. The Horizon conference that Butler plays in is lousy. Who is their main rival? Wright State? Valpo? If we could add 3-5 more schools that make sense I am all for it.


There's the catch....do you realistically think the MVC could add 3-5 schools that "make sense". To me, they only make sense if they raise the profile of the conference in basketball. I just don't see several of those schools out there that would want to join the MVC. It's great to talk about expansion, but we've got to be realistic about what teams we could get to join the MVC.

DU, you talk about old rivals, but our old rivals used to be Louisville, Memphis St., St. Louis, Tulsa. Things change. Let's expand


Memphis was only in the MVC for 6 years, Louisville for 12......not what I'd call traditional rivals. I'm talking about rivalries that go back (and have continued for) many decades.

.
Post #52763
Posted 5/1/2010 9:45:46 AM


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It's hard to predict what wil lhappen with conferences in the future, but most teams in the Valley now would have no real option at this point other than move to a lower level conference, or make a lateral move that would greatly increase expenses. It is not likely we will be losing anybody soon. I would have no problem with expansion if the teams added somehow would benefit the Valley, even if it meant that we might only face a couple teams once a year. The places that make sense to me are schools like St. Louis, Butler, or DePaul. St. Louis pobably should move, but I don't think the otheres would have any interest. If you can play for the national championship out of the Horizon, why would you ever move. In years when they might finish 5th in the Valley, Butler is in the NCAA tournament.

Don't pass up the shot.
Post #52764
Posted 5/1/2010 9:47:43 AM
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I think expansion would be good- that is where most conferences are going now- but it would have to make the MVC stronger not just larger. Back in the 60s and 70s the MVC was a dominant conference.

By stronger I mean add the right teams- or none at all. IMO South Dakota State and North Dakota State make no sense while Butler and WKU (I understand about football but just making a point) would be good. Do you think Butler wanst to go18-0 every year in the Horizon- or wants better competition? DePaul was mentioned- that would be good for several reason- good reputation and open up Chicago market- but wont happen since they just spent big bucks on a new coach- sound like they want to stay in Big East Yes- add a couple teams to strenghten conference not just to make larger.
Post #52765
Posted 5/1/2010 9:55:16 AM
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One other thought- somebody mentioned Colorado to the Pac-10 and all the rumors about Big-10 expansion. The point is the landscape out there could change alot- might be alot of schools looking to change if their leagues lose schools to other expansions. You never know.
Post #52767
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