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| [quote]SuperDawg10 (11/20/2009)
BRFDAWG It seems like my comment hit a nerve. Wow, what is that all about. I hear alot of energy and accusations from you. I attend other sporting events so where that came from who knows.
My opinion is just that my opinion.
What I do know is that this team represents Drake University so with that in mind one would think that they would be supported and appreciated for all their hard work. Getting up at 5:30 for morning work outs most of the year, staying on top of their studies, going out into their community and serving. As coach would say being Impact Men. I admire that in a person. Lets not forget they attend basketball games, Men and women soccer games and other events.
Go Dogs![/quote]
They really don't attend soccer games in droves, they don't go to volleyball games, they don't go to softball games. As far as being impact men, I can also offer up the fight they got into a few years back as a counter-argument to that, they aren't all golden children. When you start criticizing the students as human beings because they choose not to go to a football game, then yes as a Drake alum I have a serious problem with that. It's an ignorant blanket statement. Despite some recent events, Drake students are some of the best people I've ever met and I don't think whether or not they go to a football game determines what types of decisions they will make in their later lives, it just means they don't care about Drake football. |
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| BRF,
Looking at this objectively, Drake doesn't have as many students as Iowa and Iowa state. So I don't think that anyone expects 30K people to show up at a Drake game.
I think this thread is asking the question "why don't more students show up?" I suppose with around 3000 students on campus, if 20% showed up there would be about 600 more in the stands. So I don't believe that the fact that Drake doesn't have a full stadium is exclusively a student problem.
You may have a valid point about non-scholarship football but the bottom line is that IF Drake is to keep football, it will be at the non scholarship level.
I think the bigger problem with attendance is the fact that the Des Moines community and the local rag doesn't support Drake football.
And this may be more of an SID systemic issue...
On the otherhand, there have been a lot of excuses posted here.
-- DUPops is in the house. |
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| DJOM (11/18/2009)
Not to beat a dead horse here, however, last week there were 10,000 present at the Yale/Princeton game. This week there is an estimate of 40,000 for the Yale/Harvard game. Schools are non-scholarship and none of the mentioned teams are playing for the league championship. The students and alumni are involved with their schools. Drake students can and should do the same. Beat Butler.
I don't think it's very instructive to compare Drake and the PFL to larger, wealthier schools with larger, wealthier alumni bases set in much larger cities. Harvard has more employees than Drake has students.
The peer schools for Drake football are essentially limited to the PFL (I think that the Patriot League and NEC are both offering scholarships now). |
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| Instructive? I think you meant fair. As a point in fact, the Ivys are located in the most densely populated portion of the country. Within an hour of the majority of the schools you can find professional sports, D1 sports, art and theater all of which are competing for the same entertainment dollar.
So yes, maybe it is instructive. The Ivys typically average 8-9,000 fans per football game. They drive such a fan base by instilling school spirit. They are estimating 40K at Saturday's Harvard/Yale game. Neither team is playing for a division championship, none of the players are going pro, they are D1AA and within 60 minutes any number of "better" games can be found. Its called school spirit. As an aside, alumni don't come back to a school to see winning teams--though that's important they really come back to revisit the fun they had as undergraduates. Again, its called school spirit.
In my humble opinion, Drake can and should be doing the same thing. Drake is a very well respected university. Students should give up the TV/computer for 3 hours and walk to the stadium. Students that do will be happy they did for the rest of their lives. |
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| amcsepboe (11/20/2009)
The peer schools for Drake football are essentially limited to the PFL.
Although Valparaiso, Butler, and Dayton are considered peer schools, most of Drake's peers either do not have football or play Division III football.
Examples are Bradley, Creighton, Xavier, Evansville, and Hamline. Some of those schools have enormous basketball fan bases, thanks to support from the community--something Drake athletics seems to have lost.
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"It felt like there was 15 guys on the field." --Chris Creighton
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| Last one, I swear. 52,692 attended the Harvard/Yale game yesterday with nothing on the line. 1,902 attended the Drake game against Dayton when the league championship was on the line. Anyone that is obtaining an athletic scholarship should be REQUIRED to attend a minimum of one football game next season---the school is giving you $40,000--go to a football game.
Congratulations to this year's team. Team showed alot of talent and heart. All of the "experts" projected them to finish no better than 6th---one or two plays going our way yesterday and we would have been League Champs.
I am not giving the experts a shot here...they were correct--this team played with heart and soul and played above and beyond where they should have "on paper." |
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| | Great thread. Another factor are the seasons Iowa and ISU are having. The Big 11's TV contract calls for each game to be televised in that team's market. That's a big deal. Also, ISU won more games this season than the previous 2 combined. I look at attendance figures on Sunday morning, and even UNI is down in attendance from past years. Winning helps, but I wonder what Iowa's and ISU's records were when Drake was averaging 5,000 per game? |
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| Alright. one more. want to see school spirit. Look at the astronaut's Left arm in this photo.
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66697 |
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| I think the team's attitude needs a makeover. I'm friends with football players and am in no way aiming to "diss" them on this website. I came here to check out basketball news and just happened to stumble across this thread. Drake football players more often than not tend to have terrible attitudes in regard to the student body they represent and tend to be delusional concerning their "role" here at Drake.
In short, football players tend to be arrogant and often have a sense of entitlement when it comes to how they should be treated, how their games should be attended and how people should view them at Drake. The bottom line is that this is first and foremost, an academic institution set in an actual city. People have homework and other obligations and when the weekend comes along, might not have the time, simply have something better to- or dont have the energy to go see Drake lose to Southwest Missouri State University. As a former Drake student, it was really hard to get excited to go see my team play a school I had never heard of. There is very little sense of tradition with Drake football and with D1AA non scholarship talent and no "big name" superstar players- I think you're asking a lot from a student body to come pack the stands on a cold saturday morning.
My first impression of Drake football players wasn't the best one in that I witnessed big guys who bullied people out of line at hubbell/Spikes, didn't show up to class and supposedly "ran things" at Pegs and pushed us "regular guys" around. As a result a lot of sports loving, easy going guys like me quickly lost faith in the football program as a whole.
If you ask me, Drake is at a crossroads in terms of its football program. They should either decide to fully commit to the program, scholarship-it and bring in the best talent they can..or get rid of the program. Drake football players receive academic scholarship and financial aid packages in order to make up for the lack of athletic packages and students are not okay with it. You're essentially taking money away from people who need it to get an education in order to fund a program that loses money for the school and can't fill up a stadium by giving tickets for free.
The one step that I think could change things is if the football players reach out more to the Drake student body. Run programs, maybe set up days where us "regular guys" can work out/lift with them to see how amazingly tough the process of preparing for a game truly is, fundraise for the school...I don't know. In essence, do something to allow the Drake students to embrace the football players- it could happen--and people WOULD show up to games.
*Football players: the bottom line is this. None of you are going pro. None of you have a shot at going pro and more than likely- your football careers end with Drake. Schools like Florida and USC have superstars who everyone instantly falls in love with and respects due to their status, talent and the fact that they are future-millionaires who will be playing on sundays soon enough. We don't have that here. The best way to make up for that is to embrace the fact that you really are like everyone else here (just a hell of a lot bigger!) and show the student body that you're proud to be one of us. If you do that--I PROMISE you that people would show up to the games and cheer for you with everything they've got. After all, you guys are athletes who represent the school and people really really really want to like and root for you guys.
think about it. |
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| Examples are Bradley, Creighton, Xavier, Evansville, and Hamline. Some of those schools have enormous basketball fan bases, thanks to support from the community--something Drake athletics seems to have lost.
I would love to see Creighton, Evansville, and Bradley bring back football and join the PFL.
Otherwise, give scholarships and join the Missouri Valley Football Conference. It would also help if there was more postseason opportunities. You have to give the fans a reason to come. |
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| Thanks for your thoughts. A few comments, however, leave me scratching my head.
eazyeezy (3/4/2010)
People have homework and other obligations and when the weekend comes along, might not have the time, simply have something better to- or dont have the energy to go see Drake lose to Southwest Missouri State University. As a former Drake student, it was really hard to get excited to go see my team play a school I had never heard of.
Missouri State (the correct name for the former Southwest Missouri State) has been a member of the Missouri Valley Conference most of your life. Going to games would open your eyes to the surprisingly big world outside Des Moines. It sounds like the experience would do you some good.
There is very little sense of tradition with Drake football...
I think you meant to say, "I have very little sense of tradition." That's probably because you have ignored a lot of people and places on campus.
Drake football players receive academic scholarship and financial aid packages in order to make up for the lack of athletic packages and students are not okay with it. You're essentially taking money away from people who need it to get an education...
First of all, the players are also students--student-athletes with big time commitments outside the classroom. You think they don't need the money to go to school?!? And where did you get the idea that anyone was being denied a Presidential Scholarship because one was earned by someone who plays football?
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"It felt like there was 15 guys on the field." --Chris Creighton
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| I respect anyone who decides they don't like the players personally, and decides not to attend games. But let's not make lame excuses.
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"There is no shortcuts." --Mark Phelps
"It felt like there was 15 guys on the field." --Chris Creighton
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| I agree LurkingDog. I can say most of the football players I have met are great young men. They take school very seriously as is evident by the number on the all academic team. This is not an easy task while traveling to games, going to practice and meeting all school obligations.
I also achnowledge them for all the community service work they do on there off time. Nothing to sneeze at in my book.
I am sure that there have been some jerks on the team as well but that is any where in life. Doesn't mean they all are like that.
As for the scholorships they are not that substantial. Unlike the full scholorship sports at Drake. Go Big Blue!
As for the pros.... Ask Billy Cundiff. It can happen for that matter Walter Payton never went to a big school and look at his stats.
In a world of tomorrows, a NOW moment is inspiration for a lifetime. |
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| As for the scholarships they are not that substantial. Unlike the full scholarship sports at Drake.
Agreed...I would love to see us offer football scholarships and re-join the MVC in football, but I do not see it happening. It think if it did it would be a plus for the athletic department in rebuilding the fan base. |
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| I have been to Cornell College football games in little Mt. Vernon, Iowa, and more people come out to that than Drake games. Mt. Vernon's population is smaller than Drake's student body, so why do they get a good crowd?
Because the town is behind the program.
[b]SID needs to not only get the Drake community behind this team but the Des Moines community, too. Ex: STOP relying on students to create "ads" for games with butcher paper and magic markers and taping them up in Olmstead. It has to be more aggressive than that. I don't give a damn about ANYTHING posted on those walls because it's flooded with other "ads" for "quick money" other crap like that.
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Ask any student organization on campus, you have be creative and aggressive to draw anybody at Drake to an event. It's a very apathetic campus.
I see the DSM media's argument that nobody is interested so why should they cover it? It makes sense. For example, the Register is not Drake's PR service...something a lot of people tend to forget. The community needs to show they have interest and THEN the media will give games coverage and THEN more people will learn about it.
Why should they cover something nobody cares about? That isn't the way any media organization cares about. You have to convince them people do or should care about Drake games.
This has nothing to do with level of competition. Even if they switched to more familiar teams, it still wouldn't affect the students/Des Moines citizens that go to Iowa State and Iowa games. It has nothing to do with scholarship vs. non-scholarship athletes. It has nothing to do with what ESPN says. Why does Cornell still draw crowds if any of these things are true????
Granted, Cornell tries not to compete with U of I's game times, though when they do conflict attendance drops, but what can you do about that? Not much.
But Des Moines still has enough people and Drake still has enough students who don't go to Iowa or Iowa State games for SID to draw to games.
Don't blame the students, media and WHY would anybody dream of blaming the athletes?
It's all about building interest, something a lot of people who are responsible for that sort of thing at Drake have FAILED to do.
[b]If the university would get behind this team, the students and DSM community will follow.
[/b]
This problem starts very high on the ladder at Drake. I'm just saying. |
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| OK, OK...I've been caught exaggerating BUT!
Those numbers are still no excuse! How should Des Moines, with a population of 197,052 and Drake, with 5,221 students only see 2,865 fans per game when Mt. Vernon, pop. 4,158 and Cornell College, student pop. 1,155, gets 1,189 fans?
Also, Cornell has had 1 winning season in the last 10 years. It's a good year if they win more than 3 games. |
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| TimW (3/11/2010)
Those numbers are still no excuse! How should Des Moines, with a population of 197,052 and Drake, with 5,221 students only see 2,865 fans per game when Mt. Vernon, pop. 4,158 and Cornell College, student pop. 1,155, gets 1,189 fans?
I've never been to Mt. Vernon, but I'm guessing there are not a whole lot of entertainment options there.
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| Good point, though Mt. Vernon is 15 mins away from Iowa City and 20 mins away from Cedar Rapids.
A small town can't ask for too many more options. |
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| If the university would get behind this team, the students and DSM community will follow. This problem starts very high on the ladder at Drake.
Agreed  If the school wanted to try to rebuild the fan base, the could. Drake has a rich tradition in many sports. Unfortunately it does not seem like a priority and has not since the mid 1980's. |
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