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| It's cold? I think they even had a tailgate for the students with free food before the Jacksonville game, and still couldn't draw many to the game.
 Fear the squirrels |
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| | I will ask Jeff if he and his buddies went to the game yesterday. I hope they went to the game. I paid for it either way. |
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| I would say as a recently graduated student, there is not such a high opinion of the team amongst the student population. The main issue seems to stem from the fact that the students see Iowa State or Iowa and see them as being legitimate teams and they see the fact that Drake is only a non-scholarship FCS team as being a "joke". Believe me, if the school brought Drake back on a scholarship level, there would likely be an appetite for the team becasue a large portion of the student population are college football fans, they just don't see Drake as being a team with supporting. You can't blame location and I don't think you can blame the temperature either because I know a ton of fans who go to Ames or Iowa State for games when the temperatures would be the same as they would be in Des Moines.
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| [quote]BRFDawg (11/1/2009)
I would say as a recently graduated student, there is not such a high opinion of the team amongst the student population. The main issue seems to stem from the fact that the students see Iowa State or Iowa and see them as being legitimate teams and they see the fact that Drake is only a non-scholarship FCS team as being a "joke". Believe me, if the school brought Drake back on a scholarship level, there would likely be an appetite for the team becasue a large portion of the student population are college football fans, they just don't see Drake as being a team with supporting. You can't blame location and I don't think you can blame the temperature either because I know a ton of fans who go to Ames or Iowa State for games when the temperatures would be the same as they would be in Des Moines.
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So, the fact that Drake's players paid their own way is a turn off? The fact that they are doing this because they love it, not because they have a financial incentive is a turn off? So, the players that leave campus and spend Friday night in a hotel before a home game, that are seperated from the rest of college life, those guys are legit? And the football players that are more in touch with you, the average student is "a joke"? As a recent Drake grad, please do NOT take that logic into the business world. |
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| Homer, did you forget to take your meds?
Whether you agree with the sentiment, you just got the impressions of a recent grad. You can choose to ignore reality, but it won't change it.
Fans who follow a sport like to debate the playoff picture, who's beating who, which scenarios make things really interesting. Almost no one covers the PFL, the end of the year prize is a game against another conference that almost no one covers. There aren't any rankings that matter. Our commissioner won't even consider whether the conference champ should get a bid to the FCS playoffs. You'll never see a mention of the PFL on TV.
If you are doing a business analysis, best decision is to simply ignore the PFL. There isn't a market for it.
Why aren't more people at the soccer games? They've been nationally ranked and are doing great things. This country isn't a soccer nation. Doesn't mean the athletes aren't doing great things or are dedicated to their teams. Just that it isn't an interest to either the student body or the larger community. |
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| [quote]BlueDawg (11/2/2009)
Homer, did you forget to take your meds?
Whether you agree with the sentiment, you just got the impressions of a recent grad. You can choose to ignore reality, but it won't change it.
Fans who follow a sport like to debate the playoff picture, who's beating who, which scenarios make things really interesting. Almost no one covers the PFL, the end of the year prize is a game against another conference that almost no one covers. There aren't any rankings that matter. Our commissioner won't even consider whether the conference champ should get a bid to the FCS playoffs. You'll never see a mention of the PFL on TV.
If you are doing a business analysis, best decision is to simply ignore the PFL. There isn't a market for it.
Why aren't more people at the soccer games? They've been nationally ranked and are doing great things. This country isn't a soccer nation. Doesn't mean the athletes aren't doing great things or are dedicated to their teams. Just that it isn't an interest to either the student body or the larger community.[/quote]
I think the issues with the soccer teams are a little different just because of the location. I bet if they played on campus or someplace more easily accessible for the average student, they would draw a much better crowd.
As far as the football goes, I'm not saying it's right or not but you just have to look at it this way, Women's Basketball out draws the football team on most occasions. How many other universities with both can say that? That's not a knock on Drake's Women's Basketball team at all because they are a solid program and draw reasonably well but football without big name recruits or big name opponents or post season play will never draw well with the students. Why watch Drake play Missouri S&T when you can go watch Iowa State play any Big XII opponent or Iowa against any Big 10 one? You have to remember that a lot of these kids grew up watching big time college football and Drake doesn't register on their radar. As was previously mentioned they don't even register on the radar here in Des Moines with the local media. |
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| Homer shot the messenger, but he has some good points.
It's too bad Drake students need validation from ESPN to be fans. How did their self-esteem fall so low?
Elsewhere in the (D-I) nonscholarship world, the Ivy Leaguers drew 7,100-9,400 on Saturday...except for perennially awful Columbia, at 2,400. It's November, and Drake is in first place. No excuses for attendance of 1,100. Students don't even have to buy tickets, do they? |
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| I'm just challenging the points made by one of the school's own. He called the program "a joke". Not me. I just come from that old fashioned belief that students support programs of interest. It certainly isn't a problem at Division III institutions in this state. As for the PFL being a bad business decision, I'm not sure where you arrived at that point. It utilizes administration from the Missouri Valley Conference and has more affordable travel than you realize. I'm curious what the alternative is. And don't say scholarship football. That is not happening.
You brought up soccer. If Drake students are supporting Iowa or Iowa State soccer over their own, then I would have a problem with that. If the students don't like soccer, softball, crew, whatever, then no one should expect a blind support.
I'm guessing most Drake students generally enjoy football and basketball. Since Drake has such programs that represent you, the student body, in a favorable way---go out and support them. I think it's embarassing that only 1500 people show up for homecoming and less than that show up to see one of the PFL's top teams.
If Drake students do not support Drake football because it's not at a high enough level, then they should have stayed away from their own high school programs a few years ago. Unless they went to a state championship caliber school. My guess is most of Drake's students came from above average to poor football and basketball programs. But I'll bet they were there on Friday night. |
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| Homer (11/2/2009)
I'm just challenging the points made by one of the school's own. He called the program "a joke".
No. Actually, he said his fellow students think it's a joke. |
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| Many Drake students considered Butler, Valpo, and Dayton before settling on this fine university. We should care about competition with those schools.
By comparison, the Valley has too many directional-teachers college types. Don't give me any egalitarian propaganda: WE SHOULD NOT BE IN THE SAME CONFERENCE WITH THEM.
...oops. 'Just smacked my Randy Smithson bobblehead across the room. Must calm down.
A PFL all-sports conference isn't going to happen. But the Dayton game...for the PFL championship...is worth five of anything against Illinois State. |
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| On several occasions I've seen students come down to to the tailgate party just long enough to grab their free Chipotle burrito and head back to the warm confines of their dorm rooms. If the marching band (and huge kudos to them) didn't grace the stands, there wouldn't be any students in attendance.
Do many of the faculty make it to a game or two during the season?
Is it really the lack of scholarship players and high profile opponents that keep the students away? Or, perhaps most students come from generally affluent families, never played organized sports themselves and think the game of football is below them? |
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| bluedog (11/2/2009)
Or, perhaps most students come from generally affluent families, never played organized sports themselves and think the game of football is below them?
Don't they play football at the New Triers, Shawnee Missions, and Country Days?
I've seen tailgating at The Grove, witnessed the small, yet exuberant student section at Stanford...privileged kids enjoying football and its trappings.
The groups I used to see coming out for games: dorm floors, Greek houses, etc. are missing (except for the Pharmacy students running the concessions).
The athletic department sets the tone. They diminish the program in subtle ways--e.g. separate nonscholarship records. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised. |
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| [quote]bluedog (11/2/2009)
On several occasions I've seen students come down to to the tailgate party just long enough to grab their free Chipotle burrito and head back to the warm confines of their dorm rooms. If the marching band (and huge kudos to them) didn't grace the stands, there wouldn't be any students in attendance.
Do many of the faculty make it to a game or two during the season?
Is it really the lack of scholarship players and high profile opponents that keep the students away? Or, perhaps most students come from generally affluent families, never played organized sports themselves and think the game of football is below them?[/quote]
You couldn't be more off base with that assumption if you tried. It's not that people are above football it's that they believe that Drake football isn't relevant. As far as students going to high school games go, many times the student body is smaller, so you'll know more people on the team intimately. Also most states have extended their playoffs to try to include as many schools as possible so there is the always a chance of a deep run in the playoffs. Under the current system, there is no possibility of that at Drake. Nobody knows anything about the NEC? (I believe the football conference we play against?) and I would assume they could care less about the title game since they don't even go to games within our conference. The fact that Drake doesn't offer scholly football or baseball or wrestling is an embarrassment and should be sorted out. Obviously all three aren't possible but one of them should be, especially when you consider that there are scholarships sports in softball, soccer, volleyball, basketball, tennis, golf, and track/cross country for the girls. That's another argument for another day however.
*EDIT* And just back to a point made by Lurking earlier, sadly you are right ESPN is king right now and they lead the sheep so in a state where you have to compete with Iowa, Iowa State, and to a lesser extent UNI, I just don't see the students ever going in droves under the current system. The sad part is, we're on the same level as UNI as far as NCAA recognition but the distance on the field is leagues apart. |
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| | No argument necessary. That's the way Title IX affects a school with a 60 percent female enrollment. |
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| BRFDawg, Help me understand how scholarship players vs. non scholarship players puts more people in the stands.
If people don't come out to watch a 7-1 team play some decent football will they venture out to see a 4-4 scholarship team?
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| [quote]bluedog (11/2/2009)
BRFDawg, Help me understand how scholarship players vs. non scholarship players puts more people in the stands.
If people don't come out to watch a 7-1 team play some decent football will they venture out to see a 4-4 scholarship team?
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Partially it depends on options. Does that 4-4 team have a chance at winning their conference? What is the level of opposition they are playing? What states are the schools in? South Dakota for example leaves you with USD, SDSU, and that's it. It's them two or sit at home and watch TV. Valpo has Indiana, Ball State, Notre Dame, and then Indiana State and to a lesser extend Northwestern, which is on the border, plus the usual glory hounds. What are the options for post season play? Does the champion have a chance to play for the National Championship or are they playing some meaningless one off with another non-scholarship conference? This is all pretty straight forward. It's harder for older grads to understand because your options were more limited in terms of who you could see on TV. Also until the early 80s, Drake played at a much different standard of opposition (in spite of the quality of the actual DU teams). |
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| I'm going to go out on a limb here and many of you will probably shoot me down. But, If Drake continues their winning ways over the course of the next 3 seasons, I think we see a turn around in the number of people attending games. People like winners. It's a 'what have you done for me lately culture'. In fact, I believe that this time next season ( with a comparable record ), attendance will easily double and perhaps triple this seasons attendance figures.
Call it wishful thinking. Many of you doubted this staff at the beginning of the season. PFL had the Bulldogs finishing no better than 6th. This thing is going to turn around and even today's doubters will be jumping on the 'band wagon'. |
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| I thought of another factor too, a lot of the schools on our schedule are not natural rivals for us. If you had UNI and Ill State and Indiana State you might draw some more fans who identify with those opponents more than say Campbell and Jacksonville San Diego and Marist and Missouri S&T. You just have to look at the attendance for the Grand View game. Local opposition and natural conference rivals draw more people, both from Drake and from the opposition.
*EDIT* and yes you are correct, win and there will be an increase. You might even be right by saying double or triple, though that culture of winning will have to be lengthy to bring out the students en masse. |
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| BRFDawg (11/2/2009)
I thought of another factor too, a lot of the schools on our schedule are not natural rivals for us.
Of the schools you named, Indiana State is the school least likely to be mistaken for Drake's "natural rival." C'mon-- 440 miles away, 10,000 students, nothing in common academically... |
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