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| With the Drake Relays coming up I was wondering when was the last time any Drake Track and Field athlete or team placed in an event or relay in either the NCAA Div 1 Indoor or Outdoor Championships ?
Rick Wanamaker and Kevin Little come to mind but that was many moons ago.
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| The women also had some good teams way back when. I remember a successful high jumper fromt the early 80s...and the Swedish runners. Can't forget them. 
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| Lurking Dog
Can you think of any reasons why over the past 25 or so years there has been such a drop in Bulldog talent ?--- without having any direct knowledge -causes like lack of scholarships - poor recruiting -lack of interest -de-emphasis - poor coaching come to mind as possibilities.It would seem that the Drake Relays would certainly impress any high school recruit.
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| Having the Relays is probably not a big deal for recruiting. How many other schools send athletes to Drake? Anyway, a lot of the top programs skip Drake to compete at Penn.
There's no doubt money has created a competative gap, especially with regard to facilities. Compare the Drake Fieldhouse to the Tyson Track Center at Arkansas: where would you rather train during the indoor season?
Speaking of Arkansas, I see five people on their men's roster who are either from my high school (KC area) or from its main rival. At one time, Drake's team looked very similar.
Why are they now going to Arkansas? The "wow" factor of national championships, facilities, and the attendant media attention is too powerful.
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| [quote]Big Dipper (3/30/2009)
With the Drake Relays coming up I was wondering when was the last time any Drake Track and Field athlete or team placed in an event or relay in either the NCAA Div 1 Indoor or Outdoor Championships ?
Rick Wanamaker and Kevin Little come to mind but that was many moons ago.
GO BULLDOGS !![/quote]
Rick and Kevin about equal the 07-08 men's basketball team. If you look at it a different way, men's track and field at Drake is about as successful over the years as men's basketball. |
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| Rick and Kevin about equal the 07-08 men's basketball team. If you look at it a different way, men's track and field at Drake is about as successful over the years as men's basketball.
Be careful. There have been several stars on the men's side in the past few years. I am not as familiar with the women's but I know they have had some good talent too.
Jason Lehmkuhle and Matt Gabrielson both qualified for the World Cross Country Championships as professionals after successful Drake careers. Marc Dzradosi, a former Drake alum, was the second best triple jumper in Ghana last year. In addition, there have been many former Drake runners who have went on to successful careers after college in track and field over the past 10-15 years.
I cannot remember all the places, but we had several athletes qualify from NCAA's in the late 90's and early 00's in cross county, indoor track, and outdoor track. The men's cross country team won the MVC in 1999 and the women's won several during that time period.
The main problem is lack of depth, not lack of talent. In order to win the MVC in track and field and have a high team place at NCAA's, you have to have depth in a wide range of running and field event specialties. State schools have a huge advantage due to in-state tuition as scholarships in track and field are not the same as football and basketball. Most runners at Drake (and around the NCAA) are not on full scholarship. At a state school it easier to make up the difference due to in-state tuition.
In addition, being non-scholarship in football has hurt the sprinting part of the program. At a lot of schools, wide receivers and running backs also run track and field. They are on football scholarships, but run track too. At Drake we do not have football scholarships (and football players cannot be offered track scholarships because they have to remain non-athletic scholarship). As a result we have a lot of depth in the distance running (since we can combine cross country and track scholarships) and not as much in the sprint events. |
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| dudistance (4/27/2009)
[quote]Rick and Kevin about equal the 07-08 men's basketball team. If you look at it a different way, men's track and field at Drake is about as successful over the years as men's basketball.
Be careful. There have been several stars on the men's side in the past few years. I am not as familiar with the women's but I know they have had some good talent too.
Jason Lehmkuhle and Matt Gabrielson both qualified for the World Cross Country Championships as professionals after successful Drake careers. Marc Dzradosi, a former Drake alum, was the second best triple jumper in Ghana last year. In addition, there have been many former Drake runners who have went on to successful careers after college in track and field over the past 10-15 years.
I cannot remember all the places, but we had several athletes qualify from NCAA's in the late 90's and early 00's in cross county, indoor track, and outdoor track. The men's cross country team won the MVC in 1999 and the women's won several during that time period.
The main problem is lack of depth, not lack of talent. In order to win the MVC in track and field and have a high team place at NCAA's, you have to have depth in a wide range of running and field event specialties. State schools have a huge advantage due to in-state tuition as scholarships in track and field are not the same as football and basketball. Most runners at Drake (and around the NCAA) are not on full scholarship. At a state school it easier to make up the difference due to in-state tuition.
In addition, being non-scholarship in football has hurt the sprinting part of the program. At a lot of schools, wide receivers and running backs also run track and field. They are on football scholarships, but run track too. At Drake we do not have football scholarships (and football players cannot be offered track scholarships because they have to remain non-athletic scholarship). As a result we have a lot of depth in the distance running (since we can combine cross country and track scholarships) and not as much in the sprint events.[/quote]
You're right. I was careless. I'm sorry. Drake has had more success in Track and Field than Men's Basketball. |
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| No worries...it's all in how you look at it  |
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| | I wasn't being sarcastic. Taking into account the careers of runners in addition to Rick and Kevin tips the scales to T&F. Also I saw DU in events this Relays that I haven't seen in the recent past. It looks like there is general improvement across the board for the Drake T&F program. |
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| dtdog (5/9/2009)
It looks like there is general improvement across the board for the Drake T&F program.
Either that, or the competition in the Relays ain't what it used to be. In the just concluded MVC outdoor track meet, Drake's men finished in last place with 41 points. The next worst team had 88 points. In other words, Drake's team finished last in a landslide.
The women's team didn't finish much better.....7th out of 8 teams with 35.5 points. 6th place team had 71.5 points.
I would think being the host of the Drake Relays would be a good recruiting tool......any thoughts on why Drake's track team is so weak year after year?
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| DUBulldog (5/18/2009)
[quote]dtdog (5/9/2009)
It looks like there is general improvement across the board for the Drake T&F program.
Either that, or the competition in the Relays ain't what it used to be. In the just concluded MVC outdoor track meet, Drake's men finished in last place with 41 points. The next worst team had 88 points. In other words, Drake's team finished last in a landslide.
The women's team didn't finish much better.....7th out of 8 teams with 35.5 points. 6th place team had 71.5 points.
At least they scored some points. Some years, not as many. Anyway, IMO the basic answer is: You don't have to attend Drake to run at the Drake Relays. Or the Penn Relays, or the Oregon Relays which are both held the same weekend. T & F is not like football or basketball where the facility may make the difference. Most schools have some sort of track facility. A better question might be: What peer universities with Drake have track and field? Bradley-No, Creighton-No, Evansville-No. 'Similar' institutions listed in the Relays program: Detroit Mercy, Harvard, Marquette(one athlete), Saint Louis, Stanford, and Tulsa. The others listed include Baylor, Notre Dame and all public institutions.
On the women's side: Harvard, Saint Louis, Stanford, and Tulsa. That's it for Division I private institutions at the Drake Relays.
I would think being the host of the Drake Relays would be a good recruiting tool......any thoughts on why Drake's track team is so weak year after year?[/quote]
See above, and weak compared to whom? |
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| I find the results of the recent MVC outdoor track meet to be very sad. It wasn't that many years (or maybe it was ) when Bulldog athletes would place in the NCAA Div 1 Championships -now for both the Men and Women's teams we have difficulty placing in the MVC Meet. The GoDrakeBulldogs website lists one head coach and five assistants.Is the coaching staff held to any type of expectations by the Athletic Dept ? If not -it would certainly seem to be a good time to begin a dialogue concerning the direction the program is taking and what if anything can be done to prevent the free fall.
Although Creighton -Bradley- Evansville may have no Men's Track team - In the spring they all have baseball teams which Drake does not.
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| [quote]Big Dipper (5/20/2009)
I find the results of the recent MVC outdoor track meet to be very sad. It wasn't that many years (or maybe it was ) when Bulldog athletes would place in the NCAA Div 1 Championships -now for both the Men and Women's teams we have difficulty placing in the MVC Meet. The GoDrakeBulldogs website lists one head coach and five assistants.Is the coaching staff held to any type of expectations by the Athletic Dept ? If not -it would certainly seem to be a good time to begin a dialogue concerning the direction the program is taking and what if anything can be done to prevent the free fall.
Although Creighton -Bradley- Evansville may have no Men's Track team - In the spring they all have baseball teams which Drake does not.
Go Bulldogs !!![/quote]
Drake also has a football team, which the three mentioned above do not. Are you suggesting baseball > football AND track and field? I don't think any of the above three are in the NCAA baseball playoffs. Maybe Drake should drop football and track and field and restart baseball? Is that the equation here? |
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| dtdog
With all due respect -The big picture point is that Drake's track team is now third rate and the Relays rapidly becoming an event of only regional interest and recognition. Unless we begin to put the athletic administration and coaching staff's toes to the fire the track program will soon hit rock bottom.
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| Back in the late 90's/early 00's, I ran for Drake and while I am disappointed to see the team struggle of recent, I can say that the coaches/athletes do the best they can with limited resources. I recently saw an article in the Register about a local product, great runner, narrowing his college choice to Drake or UNI...in the article he is quoted as saying that he is leaning towards Drake - He ended up signing with UNI. Here is a link:
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20090602/SPORTS/90602024
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| MediaOne (6/2/2009)
Back in the late 90's/early 00's, I ran for Drake and while I am disappointed to see the team struggle of recent, I can say that the coaches/athletes do the best they can with limited resources.
When you talk about limited resources, what exactly are you refering to? Limited recruiting budget? Limited scholarships? Both? Does Drake give the maximum number of allowable scholarships?
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| [quote]Big Dipper (6/1/2009)
dtdog
With all due respect -The big picture point is that Drake's track team is now third rate and the Relays rapidly becoming an event of only regional interest and recognition. Unless we begin to put the athletic administration and coaching staff's toes to the fire the track program will soon hit rock bottom.
GO BULLDOGS !![/quote]
In 27 years of being in Des Moines, I don't recall much consistency in the DU track program. Even in the late 80's/early 90's Baylor, Michael Johnson and Kevin Little provided what spark the Relays had. The steady decline of the ISU track and field program hasn't helped but is somewhat mitigated by the rise of UNI.(as far as local color goes). In case you haven't noticed, it's expensive to travel. Also Oregon has started it's own meet that weekend. Unfortunately, there's more consistent weather in Oregon in April than Des Moines. If we get a break on the weather and the economy improves, teams will travel again.
Do you think $15,000,000 to remodel the stadium was in vain? What feet to the fire hasn't been put? If a mutli-million dollar investment isn't showing commitment, I don't know what is. With all due respect, I see a resurgence and building prominence with the Relays and Drake. The National Championships will be held at Drake next year. While not a trials year, USA Track and Field has played ball with Drake after the remodel. Is a Grand Prix event next on the horizon? ASICS' visibility at this year's relays was much more pronounced than in 2008. Another NCAA Championships? A National Championships in a trials year? I'd like to believe there's much more coming. At least the Drake Relays is not dependent upon the quality of the host school's team to carry the event. One only need to look at the Kansas Relays to see a disaster. Drake is far from that.
The pressure needs to be kept up, but the Relays have never been dependent upon the Drake track program for its' overall success. |
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| Thanks for the information dtdog.I certainly agree that 15 million is a heck of a commitment.It is now becomIng clearer that the onus for tailspin of the track program and the Relays becoming more a meet of regional signifiance falls in the lap of the Head Track Coach and the Relays Director.
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| [quote]Big Dipper (6/5/2009)
Thanks for the information dtdog.I certainly agree that 15 million is a heck of a commitment.It is now becomIng clearer that the onus for tailspin of the track program and the Relays becoming more a meet of regional signifiance falls in the lap of the Head Track Coach and the Relays Director.
GO BULLDOGS!![/quote]
OK. Let's say you're right on. What have you done/will do to improve things? Or do we still need to voice the negatives we perceive? Make no mistake, I can go negative on Drake athletics very easily. It's harder, but possibly necessary to do the same with the Relays as I look forward to the Relays for about 360 days a year. I'll start with two generalities/questions:
1. The most recent previous Relays director made a great show of stating what teams would come to the Relays because Drake would be hosting NCAA Regionals and the Championships, but that didn't pan out. Why not?
2. As a member of the Medallion Club I was NEVER approached for increased help for the 100th Relays. I can think of many ways they could have 'developed' their current contributor base for additional help for the 100th, but didn't. Sure, I could have approached them, but I wasn't able to give much more. Surely there could have been a benefit from others if they tried.
3. Has anyone other than the Relays director conducted a concerted attempt to build the Baton Club rather than just mailing brochures each year and hoping for a response?
I hope I'm wrong on some of these, but I don't think so.
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