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RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

Big Bull — Sun, 14 Mar 2010 22:54:20 GMT

[quote]rawdawg (3/14/2010)

BigBull,

[quote]He is tweeking what he has been a part of, and finding what will work for him, Raw I am sure being the frustrated head coach you are that you have it all diagrammed out and would have won 25 games this year either on the Xbox or PS3. Sorry reality worked out a little differently. I am not ready to throw it in after two years and am very excited about the kids we have and those that are on their way. I am sorry that all you can seem to do is focus on every negative thing you can come up with. You have bandwagoned with those calling Phelps a micro manager, well what are you then? You nitpick everything. Seasons over man enjoy the tourney have a beer and relax. I have been critical about some things this year and stand by them but at this point it's about reloading and adjusting. You seem intent on bitching about the size of the catsup bottle on the training table at this point and it's getting old.

[/quote]

I think you need to chill.....seriously. There is no frustration here. The season is over and the future is bright. This is a chat forum and that's what's being done here. This is just basketball......not war or world peace. It's Drake basketball at that. Our guys are the best educated young men in the country and we all shouldn't take this basketball thing that seriously. As it has been pointed out many times....This is not Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, or UNC for that matter. Nitpicking is tweaking. Batching is critical critiquing. If I'm posting about something, it's happening

or has happened. I must have overlooked the "positive posts only" info. I apologize. There's actually a ton of

positive things going on....and Drake basketball is headed to the top.....[/quote]

Glad to see your coming around!

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

rawdawg — Sun, 14 Mar 2010 22:41:42 GMT

BigBull,
[quote]He is tweeking what he has been a part of, and finding what will work for him, Raw I am sure being the frustrated head coach you are that you have it all diagrammed out and would have won 25 games this year either on the Xbox or PS3. Sorry reality worked out a little differently. I am not ready to throw it in after two years and am very excited about the kids we have and those that are on their way. I am sorry that all you can seem to do is focus on every negative thing you can come up with. You have bandwagoned with those calling Phelps a micro manager, well what are you then? You nitpick everything. Seasons over man enjoy the tourney have a beer and relax. I have been critical about some things this year and stand by them but at this point it's about reloading and adjusting. You seem intent on bitching about the size of the catsup bottle on the training table at this point and it's getting old.
[/quote]

I think you need to chill.....seriously. There is no frustration here. The season is over and the future is bright. This is a chat forum and that's what's being done here. This is just basketball......not war or world peace. It's Drake basketball at that. Our guys are the best educated young men in the country and we all shouldn't take this basketball thing that seriously. As it has been pointed out many times....This is not Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, or UNC for that matter. Nitpicking is tweaking. Batching is critical critiquing. If I'm posting about something, it's happening
or has happened. I must have overlooked the "positive posts only" info. I apologize. There's actually a ton of
positive things going on....and Drake basketball is headed to the top.....

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

mnbulldog — Sun, 14 Mar 2010 20:03:17 GMT

Gordon Gottschalk (3/14/2010)

[quote]Darth Vader (3/14/2010)

One must remember though that the only person who could 'stop' Michael Jordan was...Dean Smith.

Yeah, he stopped him all the way to a national title.[/quote]

I think it was just one, his freshman year. So he at least slowed him down after that.

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

Gordon Gottschalk — Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:54:48 GMT

Darth Vader (3/14/2010)

One must remember though that the only person who could 'stop' Michael Jordan was...Dean Smith.

Yeah, he stopped him all the way to a national title.

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

getreal4 — Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:14:30 GMT

Pt guard play and defensive toughness will define next years success. Go Dogs!

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

Darth Vader — Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:07:16 GMT

With the talent coming in, I definitely think there's potential for being a very good team.
One must remember though that the only person who could 'stop' Michael Jordan was...Dean Smith.
I hope the team next year plays to "win" instead of playing "not to lose"...I've seen way too much of that over the past couple of years.

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

Gordon Gottschalk — Sun, 14 Mar 2010 14:21:09 GMT

Someone please explain to me what this fascination is with comparing Coach P's first two years with the Davis dynasty's fifth year. Basketball is a team game and success in large part at the mid-major level comes from "chemistry" and "experience."

So compare this. Davis fifth year chemistry and experience:

1. Top 6 players -- 3 seniors (1 a fifth year senior), two 4th year juniors and a 2nd year phenom.
2. Coaching staff was together for five years, had at least five years experience in the Valley, recruited the entire roster.
3. System being run for 5 years.

Coach P chemistry and experience:

1. Players -- 4 seniors, one a phenom, but 2 of the other 3 were junior transfers and the 4th only had 2 years of regular playing time. Every other player on the team was in their first year of eligibility.
2. Coaching staff has been together for 2 years and only JO had any Valley coaching experience.
3. System being run for two years.

The last two years are not about "talent" or a "system", they are about an adjustment. Just like Keno is going through with Providence in his second year (finishing 15th out of 16 teams), just like Ben Jacobson went through in his second and the first half of his third year at UNI (even though he had much more familiarity with his players and the Valley than Coach P), just like McDermott and Lick are going through. Some coaches succeed because they get and keep the players, some don't. I'm betting Coach P succeeds because great players make great coaches.

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

Big Bull — Sun, 14 Mar 2010 00:29:38 GMT

[quote]rawdawg (3/13/2010)

BigBull,

We have not been in the same situation the past two years, especially this year with so many new faces and a system that is evolving

BigBull, please explain the DU evolving system. It might just be me but this evolution must take a few years to

implement. Seriously, let us in on the system we're all patiently waiting on......[/quote]

He is tweeking what he has been a part of, and finding what will work for him, Raw I am sure being the frustrated head coach you are that you have it all diagrammed out and would have won 25 games this year either on the Xbox or PS3. Sorry reality worked out a little differently. I am not ready to throw it in after two years and am very excited about the kids we have and those that are on their way. I am sorry that all you can seem to do is focus on every negative thing you can come up with. You have bandwagoned with those calling Phelps a micro manager, well what are you then? You nitpick everything. Seasons over man enjoy the tourney have a beer and relax. I have been critical about some things this year and stand by them but at this point it's about reloading and adjusting. You seem intent on bitching about the size of the catsup bottle on the training table at this point and it's getting old.

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

Mc Bulldog — Sat, 13 Mar 2010 22:07:29 GMT

I just don't think Drake had the level of talent needed to get it done this year. That's the bottom line. I don't care what system was ran. Doesn't mean I'm not proud of the guys. I wouldn't trade any of 'em for the world. But to continue to blame and justify the reason for not finishing stronger on the coach is just plain wrong. Trying to justify and hold up a loved one's ability as a skilled player after a season of disappointment by continuing to come on an anonymous message board and rip Coach Phelps is a slap in the face to Drake University, the students, the fans, the community, and most of all to the players themselves. This **** is getting old .... if you need therapy, go to a professional. I keep hoping this will stop but I guess some think they are slick ... in reality it is classless. Knock the crap off.

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

rawdawg — Sat, 13 Mar 2010 21:21:34 GMT

BigBull,

We have not been in the same situation the past two years, especially this year with so many new faces and a system that is evolving

BigBull, please explain the DU evolving system. It might just be me but this evolution must take a few years to
implement. Seriously, let us in on the system we're all patiently waiting on......

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

Big Bull — Sat, 13 Mar 2010 15:14:45 GMT

zman2 (3/9/2010)

McBull, If you are saying Keno never coached, why didn't Phelps just let Templeton & Young coach this year? I think we might have actually done better. Kind of like Bill Russell being a player coach for the Celtics!

Z, a good manager lets those under him who have earned the trust through past decisions grow in their roles. If you look at the beggining of the Dream season, we were not all marvelling at AE, he grew into the machine as the season went on. KK was a natural floor general who led by example and could get the others motivated. That senior cadre of players had confidence in each other and it grew especially in the Valley games. Keno didn't turn the team over, he let the leaders who had proven their ability lead other experienced players. When your youngest starter is a highly talented proven Sophmore, on a team playing the same fundamental system for four years straight, you can let the seniors lead.

We have not been in the same situation the past two years, especially this year with so many new faces and a system that is evolving.

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

dudistance — Sat, 13 Mar 2010 15:04:27 GMT

More memories that I came acrost when printing off my bracket to fill in...

Sporting News Drake vs. Western Kentucky preview

Another NCAA preview

The Sad Ending

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

zman2 — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 19:58:26 GMT

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

Darth Vader — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:46:09 GMT

PubGuy (3/9/2010)

If I didn't know they were true, I would say those numbers are ridiculously high. All I know is I still $*@#ing hate Mike Vande Garde.

Amen Pub...Amen

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

DUBulldog — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 15:30:09 GMT

Drakey (3/9/2010)

I wondered about that myself when I did the calculations. The percentages were drastically lower during that year. No other year was even close, though in 97-98 the 3 point percentage was only 56%. (5/9).

But, of course, in 1997-98, teams did not need to hit shots at the end of the game to beat Drake. The game was always well in hand by then.

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

PubGuy — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 15:11:14 GMT

If I didn't know they were true, I would say those numbers are ridiculously high. All I know is I still $*@#ing hate Mike Vande Garde.

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

Drakey — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 14:47:06 GMT

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

DUBulldog — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 10:34:06 GMT

Drakey (3/9/2010)

I actually went back throught the archives for the past twenty years and calculated the shooting percentage of Drake's opponents in the final 10 seconds of games decided by 3 points or less. Drakes opponents shot 83% overall and 74% on threes.

Take out the 2007-08 season, and those numbers rise to 88% and 82%.

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

Drakey — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 10:03:06 GMT

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

Dawg_tired — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 09:07:34 GMT

Brick94 (3/8/2010)

The design of the play by WKU may not have been luck but the fact that he actually made it was definitely luck. What are the chances he'd make that shot again? 1-in-10?

If they were playing Drake, 12 in 10

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

Brick94 — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 22:18:35 GMT

The design of the play by WKU may not have been luck but the fact that he actually made it was definitely luck. What are the chances he'd make that shot again? 1-in-10?

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

PubGuy — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 16:10:03 GMT

Thanks, DU. Was serious question. I was just too lazy to look it up on the WSU boards. Had been wondering about that while watching the Shocks in the MVC tourney.

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

DUBulldog — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 15:07:17 GMT

PubGuy (3/8/2010)

Did Dr. Tom make any kind of appearance for JY's senior day?

He was not there in person, but there was a video of him congratulating and thanking Josh.

Off topic: Anything on Johnny Coy out of Wichita State?

I don't know if this is being asked seriously, or as a smart-alec question.....so I'll answer in a manner assuming it was serious.

Coy dropped basketball to focus on baseball....never saw the court at WSU. From what I heard from some WSU fans who are in the know, the Coy situation created some serious friction between the baseball and basketball coaches at WSU.

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

rawdawg — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 14:17:41 GMT

DU 53

Keno did a great job managing the team

Guys/Girls....that's what we're talking about. Management style that's most effective with the
players that you have. Keno was a great manager (facilitator). MP2 is a micro-manager. One
female reporter from St. Louis likened Phelps to a youth basketball coach. It was demonstrated
this year that we had the players that could play with and beat any team in the Valley on any
given night. We were out-managed too many times this season. Let's hope we'll manage better
next year...

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

DU_53 — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 14:05:14 GMT

PubGuy (3/8/2010)

P.S: Thought Drake played pretty good defense on the final play against WKU. Kid just hit a legendary shot.

What are you talking about? What is a WKU?

On a side note, I remember the game at SMS (for darth) that closed down that old building that D lost. I felt like at the time the adjustments that Keno didn't make on the defensive side (pressed too much or something, I don't recall) really hurt Drake down the stretch.

But typically speaking the only coaching I ever saw was Justin Ohl's clapping. However, everyone should acknowledge Keno did a great job managing the team.

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

PubGuy — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 13:44:18 GMT

P.S: Thought Drake played pretty good defense on the final play against WKU. Kid just hit a legendary shot.

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

PubGuy — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 13:41:58 GMT

Been reading more posting less this year, but wanted to weigh in on this one.

Even if Keno didn't coach a lick during the miracle season, he did a great job of not overcoaching. If you give every coach a walk-on for a starting point guard, 99 percent of them would have called every single play down the court. If AE and KK coached the team, Keno was smart enough to let them do it.

Don't quite get the animosity that some have for Keno. Phelps will do the same thing should he have anywhere near that kind of season. And I'll tip my hat to him and wish him luck.

Of course, there may be some people more in the know about the program than I am and have more of the inside scoop.

Did Dr. Tom make any kind of appearance for JY's senior day?

Was disappointed to see Keno suffer some close losses this last week. I have a feeling he may be under the gun more than Phelps in the 10-11 season.

This will be a key offseason for the Dogs. I'm excited about the performance of SVD and the potential of BS, AH and DS. Some hard work in the offseason will turn that potential into performance. I'm even holding out hope for SJ!

Off topic: Anything on Johnny Coy out of Wichita State?

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

rawdawg — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 13:36:33 GMT

Yeah... it was a painful experience for us all... live and learn.. I give MP2 credit for putting a BIG on the ball at the end of the SIU game at StL. with 1.5 on the clock. Anything is possible.

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

Dawg_tired — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 13:17:22 GMT

[quote]rawdawg (3/8/2010)

DT,

I have but one thing to say in this debate. I never thought Keno cost us a game with his coaching. MP on the other hand.....

I can only think of one.... The BIG ONE - WKU..... should have put a BIG on the throw in and denied the initial catch. WKU was out of T.Os and we had just gotten a five sec. count only a minute or so previous. WKU set up the perfect play for the long shot. It was not LUCK..... it was designed. The kid knocked down the long ball. We got to the dance with the long ball and we lost by the long ball. "It is what it is...."[/quote]

I could also point to Klayton Korver hoisting threes when the game was in the bag. Would have made that long ball moot.

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

Dawg_tired — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 13:16:31 GMT

Mc Bulldog (3/8/2010)

[quote]Dawg_tired (3/8/2010)

I have but one thing to say in this debate. I never thought Keno cost us a game with his coaching. MP on the other hand.....

You would be correct in that Erector Set Boy never cost Drake a game with his coaching. He never coached.[/quote]

You know that's not true ya prack. You're just pissed off that he left. If finding lightening in a bottle were easy you'd be a fricking thunderstorm.

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

rawdawg — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 12:58:23 GMT

DT,

I have but one thing to say in this debate. I never thought Keno cost us a game with his coaching. MP on the other hand.....

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

Mc Bulldog — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 12:23:51 GMT

Dawg_tired (3/8/2010)

I have but one thing to say in this debate. I never thought Keno cost us a game with his coaching. MP on the other hand.....

You would be correct in that Erector Set Boy never cost Drake a game with his coaching. He never coached.

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

Drakey — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 12:10:21 GMT

Dawg_tired (3/8/2010)

I have but one thing to say in this debate. I never thought Keno cost us a game with his coaching. MP on the other hand.....

And your one sentence was more astute than all of the rambling posts on here combined.

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

Brick94 — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 11:58:16 GMT

How can anyone say that there is no such thing as luck?

If I chuck two balls from half court and happen to make one, is that not luck? Or did I just "want it more" on that shot?

That team two years ago had a great combination of luck and skill. They were a great team but they also got lucky a few times. (And unlucky one time on a very big stage.)

Drake won't be able to recreate that season but I'm not about to say that we aren't still getting some good fortune from that year. I think we're going to see some young players step up next season. Huge strides can be made between a player's freshman and sophomore season.

I feel much better about our freshmen, no matter how lost they looked at times, than I do about a couple of our returning experienced players.

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

Dawg_tired — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 11:39:50 GMT

I have but one thing to say in this debate. I never thought Keno cost us a game with his coaching. MP on the other hand.....

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

rawdawg — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 10:26:15 GMT

McBulldog,

Then again I'm a marketing guy. I think the young'uns we got on the ship and the new ones coming in are going to lead us to the promise land. And when I say that I mean it in a very constructive manner. Keno DID NOT COACH THAT TEAM. Keno DID NOT RECRUIT THAT TEAM. Let's face it ... Bulldogs got lucky that year. Who knew AE would ever play like that ... what about Bucky? Who knew Korver would be able to bang down low the way he did? NOBODY .... we caught lighting in a bottle. It probably ... for me anyway ... was special because of how it happened

In defense of Keno: He was smart enough not to change things. He was smart enough to play his older players with
a touch of a few young ones..... JY and JP. He tweaked very little. No such thing as LUCK. You make you own luck. He had a plan laid out for him and he followed it. He knew CHEMISTRY 101. If it's not broken... DON'T FIX IT !! Tom played too many people in his "40 Minutes of HELL" but they played defense to the sacrifice of the offense.
Yes, the mastermind and architect of 07-08 was Dr. Tom Davis. Give him his due. Chris Davis recruited JY. Give him
credit too.

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

DUBulldog — Sun, 07 Mar 2010 22:39:11 GMT

Mc Bulldog (3/7/2010)

You know, we all talk about getting another big post player but I'm starting to wonder if that takes the priority now. Maybe even more importantly ... Phelps needs to go out and find the best point guard available. We aren't going to make jack shat next year unless Frank puts on about 15 lbs of muscle, hones his skill set, and works on quickness and toughness. Can Frank do that? I'm sold on the young man. He is a great human being. But to win in the league, you have to have a the real deal at point guard. Can Madison come in and play at the level we need as freshman? Don't know yet. The point guard position must be dealt with first and foremost. Without it we got nothing.

Agreed. I'm hoping Frank can improve enough in the offseason to prove us both wrong.

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

Mc Bulldog — Sun, 07 Mar 2010 21:26:34 GMT

.. I have been verbally abused by wife and 14 yr old son, "How can you forget David Smith!!!" Can David step up for next year?

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

Mc Bulldog — Sun, 07 Mar 2010 19:14:47 GMT

We've all heard the old saying, "trying too hard". Or how about, "let the game come to you." Or ....

I think Phelps is a great guy and hope he proves to be a great coach. If I were in his shoes or any of his staff ... I believe I'd cringe when I heard the comparison to Dr. Tom. If there was one thing the good Dr. was good at .. IMO ... was ownership of one's responsibilities. That is how he sold and managed the deal. And I mean delegated it all from top to bottom. Yeah ... it was lightning in bottle and ... yeah, he did some things, but what he really did was plant seeds. Jack in the Bean Stalk is what we got.
I don't expect to reach a championship using the same game plan or exactly the same style as the Dr. unless we hired a guy with ... what ??? 40+ years of big time success ... I don' think anyone can expect a foundation to be laid the same way. It's not a cookie cutter type model. That said, does Coach Phleps write down his goals? I mean does he actually sit down and write out a psuedo business plan? Does he take it to Maxwell and Sandy and show them what his plan is? That is exactly what the good Dr. did. He had a flow chart of how he saw it all ... A to Z. He sold everything he wanted and they bought it and we won. I really don't care if Coach shows it to anyone or not ... as long as he writes it down and makes it real.
You know, we all talk about getting another big post player but I'm starting to wonder if that takes the priority now. Maybe even more importantly ... Phelps needs to go out and find the best point guard available. We aren't going to make jack shat next year unless Frank puts on about 15 lbs of muscle, hones his skill set, and works on quickness and toughness. Can Frank do that? I'm sold on the young man. He is a great human being. But to win in the league, you have to have a the real deal at point guard. Can Madison come in and play at the level we need as freshman? Don't know yet. The point guard position must be dealt with first and foremost. Without it we got nothing.

RE: Hard to believe it has been two years

Fro — Sun, 07 Mar 2010 18:09:39 GMT

Mc Bulldog (3/7/2010)

Not for me Darth. Then again I'm a marketing guy. I think the young'uns we got on the ship and the new ones coming in are going to lead us to the promise land. And when I say that I mean it in a very constructive manner. Keno DID NOT COACH THAT TEAM. Keno DID NOT RECRUIT THAT TEAM. Let's face it ... Bulldogs got lucky that year. Who knew AE would ever play like that ... what about Bucky? Who knew Korver would be able to bang down low the way he did? NOBODY .... we caught lighting in a bottle. It probably ... for me anyway ... was special because of how it happened. Turn the clock forward two years. We have a coach that by all counts is one honk'n GREAT recruiter. People didn't like a lot of things that Dr. Tom did ... Keno?- non-factor, he never coached or recruited for Drake. Do I like everything I see from Phelps as far as floor coaching goes? I don't know ... I question some of the things he does but I'm not the coach. I think the man is learning and I believe he accepts his success and failure on an even keel. No way, no how, am I not excited about what the future holds for Drake. If there is anything I really feel Drake could do and that is support the team better in terms of ambience ... why not support the cheerleaders more than a stipend for books, how about sprucing up the band, how about a dance team. We get a young guy, a new one every 2-3 years, with too much gel in his hair coming out with a microphone to run a chicken toss contest every time out. Maxwell has his thoughts and priorities on what should be what but .... I don't agree with him on this. Enthusiasm breeds enthusiasm, success breeds success ... and vice versa.

Love it, love it, love it...