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RE: Drake at Butler

Mecha_Bulldog — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 08:40:41 GMT

The Quad City Times has a nice story about the game:

[quote]If you wanted purity of players, coaches and game Saturday, you needn’t have looked further than historic Hinkle Fieldhouse, where No. 16 Drake upset No. 8 Butler in the headliner of the weekend’s “BracketBuster” matchups.

It was college basketball the way it was meant to be played.[/quote]

RE: Drake at Butler

melvin01 — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 11:27:26 GMT

AMEN!

RE: Drake at Butler

CharlesW — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 11:23:51 GMT

There has been an awful lot of talk that really doesn't mean much.

It can all be summed up in two lines.

Drake: 71
Butler: 64

Case closed.

RE: Drake at Butler

gutwrencher — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:37:53 GMT

Butlerfan (2/25/2008)

[quote]If you think whatever contact Green made with Young made him fall down you are being naive. Young did a great acting job. It's part of the game, but Mike most definately did nothing to cause Young to fall down

I've been sick as a dog since Saturday so I apologize if my memory is cloudy, but I have a few observations. I was not fortunate enough to go to the game, but have watched it in it's entirety 5 times.

Green fouled Young. Young gave an extra lean and made it seem worse. SMART kid. Thats how you do it. The kicker? If Green had not reached in and disturbed the shot slightly, Josh would have nailed it because thats what he does. Either way, Young was not going to allow Butler to win the game. Young, my friends, is a STUD.

Watching the replay, I see Bucky with the ball and before he has even done any so called taunting, front row BU fans are yelling at him, saying who knows what. At the end, Buck is yelling at the front row because it's a little hard to resist when you are getting hammered vocally by opposing front row fans. Same for when Adam dove for the loose ball which turned into an awesome bucket. Correct me if I'm wrong, but while the 2 guys that caught Adam as he flew into the floor row, another guy is screaming at AE saying God knows what. Some may say he might be yelling at the ref, but I say.....he's cryin' like a baby and screaming at AE. For those on the BU board that say AE did nothing to impress......well, I'm floored by this. Indiana knows basketball. You would think what Adam did in the game was obvious.

Here are my 2 fave moments of the game....BY FAR.

Josh cuts through the lane, gets open, and drains a 3. If you look over at the BU coach....he's throwing his shoulders down and looking like he's beating someone up. He then strolls to the end of the bench and violently turns around while still yelling. There was not much his defense could do. This is proven a little later when Young nails another 3. BU coach just turns twords his coaches and players and raises his arms in surrender. I know he was saying, DAMMIT!!!! WHAT CAN YOU DO? For me, both classic moments.

RE: Drake at Butler

dtdog — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 06:42:19 GMT

[quote]Butlerfan (2/25/2008)

As you guys grow as a program you'll get used to the big time environments you saw at Hinkle Saturday night.
I've witnessed Duke-UNC from Cameron Indoor (it was an experience to say the least), Southern Ilinois-Creighton at SIU (I don't know if you'd be suprised or not to know that it is ranked way up there), Kentucky-Indiana at IU, Purdue-Indiana at IU and Purdue, and IU-Michigan State at IU among other rivalry games in both basketball and football. The taunting, booing, and heckling I saw in Hinkle isn't even close to the top 10 on the list of worsts. I will say, though, that it was the roughest I've ever seen Hinkle.

With that said, taunting opposing fans, saying obscene chants, and throwing objects is still disgusting and shouldn't happen. However, it does and it did happen at all those games I mentioned. I learned quickly that it shouldn't obscure your image of the fan bases involved.
What I'm saying is please don't judge Butler's fan base too harshly. We all have our idiot fans and in this case idiot bandwagon fans. /quote]

What a bunch of condescending BS. Bigtime = classless? Other than the age and history of Hinkle, that environment was no more bigtime than half the Valley on a regular basis. Though smaller, the Knapp Center has been clearly 'bigtime' if Saturday is the standard. Our students are more creative too. Creighton, SIU, Wichita, Bradley, Drake this season, and MSU all have environments equal to Butler's.

Move on, game lost, deal with it.

RE: Drake at Butler

Mecha_Bulldog — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 23:15:41 GMT

David Woods, the Butler writer for the Indianapolis Star, rips the Butler fans in his blog:

[quote]As bad as the bottle-throwing and profanity might have been, I find the postgame comments made on this blog and on Butler's fan message board to be just about as offensive. To be candid, in eight years of covering this beat, I have never read such a collection of idiotic posts. To read them, you would think Butler is 0-28, instead of 25-3...

Butler's program likes to think of itself as special and above the fray, and as far as the players and coaching staff are concerned, that is applicable. Not sure about the fans any more, though.[/quote]

RE: Drake at Butler

Dawg_tired — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 21:11:09 GMT

Butlerfan. Your team lost, but you can quit being a loser. Go back and whine on your own board.

RE: Drake at Butler

DrakeDawg — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:16:09 GMT

Did anyone throw a hot dog? The game was in Indiana!

RE: Drake at Butler

Mc Bulldog — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:30:52 GMT

Gut or whoever .. can you please post a replay of that? I'm sure we can agree on one thing, it was an exciting game. Good luck the rest of the way, unless there is another DU/BU match up in March. How huge would that be?

RE: Drake at Butler

Butlerfan — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:14:33 GMT

[quote]Mc Bulldog (2/25/2008)

ButlerFan, I will disagree with your opinion on the foul. You must have sat across from the players benches because everyone behind the benches saw that Green and his quick hand, pulled down on Josh's arm. The fans across the arena went ballistic and the fans behind the scorers table had either a groan or a delayed reaction. I watched the replay a few times last night, it was not the best angle but showed what happened. Green clearly fouled Young, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

The worst call of the game was on ESPN's highlights, when Howard went between Korver and Cox for the lay up. Neither of them touched Howard. I think every basket that Emmencker scored he was fouled with nothing called. That said, I thought the game was fair and well officiated ... evenly called for both teams.[/quote]

Yep, I was across from the benches but I was in the front row even with the basket to your left (my right). I had a great angle and Green most definately made contact but he didn't grab. It wasn't worthy of a foul in my opinion, but it really isn't worth arguing about at this point.

The refs made some bad calls against Drake too but I didn't feel there were as many. Cox threw a blatant elbow in the first half and Betko got the foul. Howard got tackled and was called out of bounds. Graves barely got Young on the wrist on that 3 and he crumbled to the floor. Green's charge was the worst call of them all. I can live with the foul called on Green on Young's 3 point attempt.

And, yet, Butler could have won this game but didn't get it done. Drake out played us and the better team on Saturday won regardless of the officiating.

RE: Drake at Butler

Mc Bulldog — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:01:11 GMT

RE: Drake at Butler

scrove — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:46:29 GMT

[quote]Butlerfan (2/25/2008)

As for Cox, he was clearly taunting the crowd. He pointed, clapped, falshed his jersey, and shouted something. Personally, I have no problem with it. I've seen a lot worse in my time and I really look at it no different than a few fans acting like idiots.
[/quote]

Did he clap after Drake scored? Wow, go figure.
Maybe he had family at the game, perhaps he was giving them a shoutout, I don't know.

As long as he didn't do anything obscene, I also have no problem with it, because Lord knows that I've seen other players from other schools taunt Drake fans. (See Blake Ahearn last year the last 2 minutes of the game at Drake). As a fan, if you can dish it, you have to be able to take it.

RE: Drake at Butler

Butlerfan — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:34:23 GMT

bigturk (2/25/2008)

Yes, it is too bad that student athletes are put into such a position. How much crap can people expect them to take, and them get upset because they respond?

It's human nature. I agree, but it is part of your responsibility as a player to not stoop to their level.

RE: Drake at Butler

bigturk — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:32:26 GMT

Yes, it is too bad that student athletes are put into such a position. How much crap can people expect them to take, and them get upset because they respond?

RE: Drake at Butler

Butlerfan — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:31:29 GMT

Mc Bulldog (2/25/2008)

I'd say if the Butler fans were taunted it was by their own player. When Green commited his fifth foul he acted like it was the worst call ever made in the history of basketball. He clearly grabbed Young's arm and pulled him down. That is when the worst of the worst occured concerning the crowd. He later goes to the media and mans up to the fact that he indeed did foul Josh.

If you think whatever contact Green made with Young made him fall down you are being naive. Young did a great acting job. It's part of the game, but Mike most definately did nothing to cause Young to fall down.

After the play Green merely walked away in an angry manner. He may have shouted a few words while walking away but he never said anything to the official's face.

I'm not sure what you mean by "if the Butler fans were taunted it was by their own player."

You're really grasping...

RE: Drake at Butler

Mc Bulldog — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:02:09 GMT

RE: Drake at Butler

Butlerfan — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 15:57:08 GMT

As you guys grow as a program you'll get used to the big time environments you saw at Hinkle Saturday night.

I've witnessed Duke-UNC from Cameron Indoor (it was an experience to say the least), Southern Ilinois-Creighton at SIU (I don't know if you'd be suprised or not to know that it is ranked way up there), Kentucky-Indiana at IU, Purdue-Indiana at IU and Purdue, and IU-Michigan State at IU among other rivalry games in both basketball and football. The taunting, booing, and heckling I saw in Hinkle isn't even close to the top 10 on the list of worsts. I will say, though, that it was the roughest I've ever seen Hinkle.

With that said, taunting opposing fans, saying obscene chants, and throwing objects is still disgusting and shouldn't happen. However, it does and it did happen at all those games I mentioned. I learned quickly that it shouldn't obscure your image of the fan bases involved.

What I'm saying is please don't judge Butler's fan base too harshly. We all have our idiot fans and in this case idiot bandwagon fans.

As for Korver's comments about security telling them to run to the locker room, every team is instructed to do so. To get back to the visitors locker room you have to go down a hall way completely accessible to anyone. If you mill around too long the hall way will be filled with people.

As for Cox, he was clearly taunting the crowd. He pointed, clapped, falshed his jersey, and shouted something. Personally, I have no problem with it. I've seen a lot worse in my time and I really look at it no different than a few fans acting like idiots.

I wish you guys the best and will be rooting for you in the tourney. Josh Young is a dynamite player for a sophomore and should be an All-American canidate his senior year. Hopefully, we meet again in 8 or 9 games.

RE: Drake at Butler

LurkingDog — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 15:13:54 GMT

gutwrencher (2/24/2008)

[quote]LurkingDog (2/24/2008)

[quote]BlueDawg (2/23/2008)

[quote]LurkingDog (2/23/2008)

When was the last time Drake beat a team ranked #8 or better?

Feb 1969[/quote]
The AP notes a win over #7 Tulsa in 1982.[/quote]

Man, that ws a while ago. I saw Drake play Tulsa a few times in the early 80's, but I'm not sure if they were ranked that high when I saw them.[/quote]
------------------------------------

That was the Leon Van Hook, slap it off the floor game. I was there (didn't get a clear view of it until I saw it replayed on the CBS Evening News), but I had forgotten that Tulsa was ranked in the top ten.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080214/OPINION01/802140375/1035/archive

RE: Drake at Butler

DUBulldog — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 14:54:57 GMT

fornov (2/25/2008)

Sorry. My bad. I never even noticed that before. I'll do better next time!

Hey, you're a Drake fan....you can't do any better than that.

RE: Drake at Butler

fornov — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 14:41:11 GMT

Sorry. My bad. I never even noticed that before. I'll do better next time!

RE: Drake at Butler

DrakeGuy — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 14:38:55 GMT

If people were throwing water bottles at me, I can honestly say after winning I wouldn't have been quite so tame about the victory. I would probably take about 7 victory laps taunting the whole time. Again, thats why I am not a part of the team (and the fact that I have no basketball ability at all) and the men we have are. They show sportsmanship, after a hard fought game in a very tough atmosphere, that is truly a small infraction of sportsmanship. Atleast none of our players picked up the water bottles and threw them at the fans.

RE: Drake at Butler

DUBulldog — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:54:35 GMT

fornov (2/25/2008)

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/photo?photoId=1829918&teamId=2633.....(Sorry, I don't know how to do the live link thing).

Not trying to be a smartass, but there is a thread pinned to the top of the message board explaining how to post a live link. Here is the link to that.

And, here's a live link to what you posted.

RE: Drake at Butler

Mc Bulldog — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:52:21 GMT

Big Turk-

Too bad that Bucky had to respond

Big turk-

I forgot to mention that I did not say what Bucky did was classless, but said what Butler fans did was classless. Clearly reading and comprehension is not your strong suit.

Yeah .... I'm sorry Turk, I thought you were saying it was "too bad" Bucky responded. I'm pretty sure that's exactly what you said, right? I took as if you were saying it was "too bad" .. ya know .. like it wasn't a good thing. So you agree with me that it was a good thing, just "too bad" that he was put in the position of having to respond, right? Otherwise I'm totally confused by your original post.

RE: Drake at Butler

fornov — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:49:41 GMT

I don't see why this is a big deal AT ALL. I see players do it all the time. I wasn't at the game, and I haven't seen a replay of exactly what Cox did, but was it anything like this?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/photo?photoId=1829918&teamId=2633

(Sorry, I don't know how to do the live link thing).

Seriously, players do this all the time at the end of the game when they win. Unless Bucky was giving them the finger, or shouting obscenities, I'm fine with it.

If Butler doesn't want him doing it in their house, they should have played better and won the game.

RE: Drake at Butler

bigturk — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:48:29 GMT

I forgot to mention that I did not say what Bucky did was classless, but said what Butler fans did was classless. Clearly reading and comprehension is not your strong suit.

RE: Drake at Butler

bigturk — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:43:34 GMT

[quote]Mc Bulldog (2/25/2008)

Turk-

Too bad that Bucky had to respond, but how classless for the Butler fans to react like that. I am not justifying Bucky's actions by saying what BU fans did was worse, but it does sound like a number of BU fans embarrassed themselves. Are they still angry that Drake killed them on the gridiron? Probably.

If you were not there to see what happened you should probably not give an uninformed opinion. What Bucky did was not out of line at all. I don't think you understand what type of enviromnment it was. I loved Bucky's attitude and it is exactly what this team needs. There was nothing classless about his wave or sticking out the Drake on his jersey to the classless fans of Butler. This isn't a church fellowship meeting.[/quote]

How thoughtless of me to think I can post an opinion on a message board. Obviously no one else has ever given an uninformed on Drake Nation. Please forgive me.

RE: Drake at Butler

Dawg_tired — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 11:32:37 GMT

[quote]Mc Bulldog (2/25/2008)

Turk-

If you were not there to see what happened you should probably not give an uninformed opinion. What Bucky did was not out of line at all. I don't think you understand what type of enviromnment it was. I loved Bucky's attitude and it is exactly what this team needs. There was nothing classless about his wave or sticking out the Drake on his jersey to the classless fans of Butler. This isn't a church fellowship meeting.[/quote]

Obviously, not a church fellowship meeting. They let you in.

RE: Drake at Butler

Mc Bulldog — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 11:08:10 GMT

Turk-

RE: Drake at Butler

bigturk — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:58:22 GMT

Watched Midnight Madness and they still didn't give Drake much respect. After the Drake clips they showed the SIU highlights, and the commentators stated they were the best team in the Valley. He tried to cover it up by saying no disrespect to Drake. What else would you call it.

Too bad that Bucky had to respond, but how classless for the Butler fans to react like that. I am not justifying Bucky's actions by saying what BU fans did was worse, but it does sound like a number of BU fans embarrassed themselves. Are they still angry that Drake killed them on the gridiron? Probably.

RE: Drake at Butler

DUBulldog — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:52:00 GMT

Nice article from the Quad City Times.

RE: Drake at Butler

CharlesW — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:26:36 GMT

[quote]Mecha_Bulldog (2/24/2008)

Might as well complete the circle here. From the BU board:

Not to re-stir things, which have thankfully settled down, but from my angle, #31 from Drake waved at BU fans as they departed before the final buzzer, then turned to the student section to flash the word Drake across his chest. DU fans on Drakenation claimed that he was waving to Section 22 at the Drake fans, but that clearly wasn't the case. He was waving in the opposite direction of the DU fan section. It was what it was, and it is over. We really cant take the moral high ground here, given yesterday's events.

Meh. If that's what happened, it sounds pretty tame. It seems to me if you're going to scream at a guy for two hours, you should be able to handle a shirt pop and him waving when the game's over.[/quote]

Given that these men/boys are in their early 20's, participating in a sport that is highly emotional in it's own right, playing in a game that carries even more emotion because of what it means to everyone involved, playing in a very emotionally charged arena in front of 10,000 fans, do you really expect them to not be emotional?

If Bucky did what they said he did, I can certainly understand.
Was it the best decision?
Maybe not.
Would I have done the same, Absolutely!!!

RE: Drake at Butler

Mc Bulldog — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 23:29:14 GMT

Drake wins what is one of the most exciting games I've ever watched. We got home a few hours ago and went straight to the DVR to watch the game again.

Met a ton of great Butler fans before and after the game. About five minutes before tip off, two guys come and take their seats next to me. One of them looks familiar but I don't know who it is. I put my hand out and introduce myself and he shakes my hand and say's he is Bob Netolicky. He then intoduces me to his friend, Bobby Plump. How huge is that?

Unfortuntly, things got a bit out of hand the last 5-8 minutes of the game and continued to get worse and the time ran off the clock. Luckily there were no fists thrown. I'm not kidding either, it was the most hostile environment for a basketball game I've ever witnessed. It wasn't just the students either, it was 40 & 50 years olds. F 'em and feed 'em beans, on the court and off the court too. Butler has passionate fans and they snapped .. plain and simple. I think the police and security were real nervous that things were going to the next level. I loved it! Too MUCHA! The crowd didn't appreciate Drake fans coming into Hinkle Fieldhouse and chanting "DEFENSE" or "LET"S GO DRAKE" .. and they didn't much appreciate the men beating them either. YEAH .. anything and everything that had to do with the Drake Bulldogs went over like a turd in a punch bowl for Butler fans.

Great pregame party .. hats off to Ron Snow. My guess and lot's of others at the game was that Drake had around 350 fans. There were quite a few that were not sitting in sect. 22.

I think Paul Morrison is probably the coolest human that has ever lived on Earth.

RE: Drake at Butler

Mecha_Bulldog — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:45:20 GMT

Might as well complete the circle here. From the BU board:

Meh. If that's what happened, it sounds pretty tame. It seems to me if you're going to scream at a guy for two hours, you should be able to handle a shirt pop and him waving when the game's over.

RE: Drake at Butler

bulldogbrad — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:36:52 GMT

One thing I should say - props to the areana staff. They allowed all the Drake fans to hang out after the game around the bench and on the court. There was no one forcing people to leave. Then you had a bunch of kids on the court shooting baskets. That's pretty cool that in a historic place like that you can just hang out and savour a great basketball game.

RE: Drake at Butler

bulldogbrad — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:25:19 GMT

I was at the game yesterday. Someone throws an empty bottle and something I have no idea what it was at Josh Young late in the game when he's waiting to take the ball out of bounds. A half-full water bottle comes flying onto the court. A guy sitting courtside is yelling at Bucky as Korver is shooting free-throws at the end and Bucky shows him his jersey and laughs at him. Talk about calling the Kettle black or whatever that great phrase is.

It was really cool to go to that building and see Drake win.

RE: Drake at Butler

Dawg_tired — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:44:30 GMT

[quote]4Bulldogs (2/24/2008)

buhoops post titled "Note to Keno Davis".... they're calling out Bucky?? Huh????

---------

Congratulations to your Bulldogs. You've got a talented team and we wish you well thru the rest of the season. I want to apologize for unsportsmanlike conduct of some fans throwing objects onto the court near the end of the game. That's obviosuly not representative of the Butler Way. However, I hope you don't condone the behavior of your boy Cox either. I expect more from a NCAA student athlete who is on a team of your caliber. Running around the court taunting at the fans and running his mouth isn't sportsmanlike either. While I don't condone it, it doesn't surprise anyone that some crazed Butler students take heckling a little far and, unfortunately, threw objects onto the court. However, I can assure you this, a Butler player would never show the lack of leadership and integrity of Cox at the end of the game. As they say, "act like you've been there before." And, if you haven't been there before, then the coaches should have their players better prepared on how to conduct themselves and react to such situations.

------

GO BULLDOGS!![/quote]

Obviously somebody with an english degree.

RE: Drake at Butler

LurkingDog — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:01:54 GMT

Getreal, it's about time to change your sig line.

Change 3 years to 3 weeks.

RE: Drake at Butler

4Bulldogs — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:00:02 GMT

buhoops post titled "Note to Keno Davis".... they're calling out Bucky?? Huh????
---------

Congratulations to your Bulldogs. You've got a talented team and we wish you well thru the rest of the season. I want to apologize for unsportsmanlike conduct of some fans throwing objects onto the court near the end of the game. That's obviosuly not representative of the Butler Way. However, I hope you don't condone the behavior of your boy Cox either. I expect more from a NCAA student athlete who is on a team of your caliber. Running around the court taunting at the fans and running his mouth isn't sportsmanlike either. While I don't condone it, it doesn't surprise anyone that some crazed Butler students take heckling a little far and, unfortunately, threw objects onto the court. However, I can assure you this, a Butler player would never show the lack of leadership and integrity of Cox at the end of the game. As they say, "act like you've been there before." And, if you haven't been there before, then the coaches should have their players better prepared on how to conduct themselves and react to such situations.

------

GO BULLDOGS!!

RE: Drake at Butler

dtdog — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:36:51 GMT

Mecha_Bulldog (2/24/2008)

[quote]I have no clue. All I saw our players do is aknowledge the DU fans who were, for the most part, in sec 22.

Maybe that's it. Since sec 22 is right next to the students, maybe they saw acknowledging Drake fans as taunting the BU fans right next to them.[/quote]

Has to be it. No way the Drake players were taunting anyone. They were clearly looking up at the group in Sec 22. Korver waved first and the others joined in. Some of the players pointed at us and then applauded. For them to think that's taunting, the grapes must be very sour today.

Seems like another fan base in a long line that can't believe opponents have fans too.

RE: Drake at Butler

Darth Vader — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:13:57 GMT

KCCI was at Hinkle as well. If anyone wants to know who I am, just look to "the paw"

link